Australian test selection thread 2015/16

[Dan]

Erm, no brockley. That isn't how it works.

 

[Prince EWS]

Erm, no brockley. That isn't how it works.

He's half right about Cooper; he can't play for Australia as he's signed on as a local player in county cricket. He can however play for the Netherlands if he wants.

Handscomb signed as an overseas player though, so he's free to play for Australia.

 

[Dan]

He's half right about Cooper; he can't play for Australia as he's signed on as a local player in county cricket. He can however play for the Netherlands if he wants.

Handscomb signed as an overseas player though, so he's free to play for Australia.

Yeah, I'm aware of that -- if he's playing on his Dutch passport he can't exactly piss off to play international cricket for Australia (unless he does some 'creative' contract manipulation if he gets called into the squad ). But let's face it, he probably wasn't going to get an Ashes berth anyway, so it's wholly irrelevant to anything else.

Australia A probably won't pick him, not because they can't as brockley states, but because the Australian selectors recognise that he's getting benefit from playing County Cricket anyway, and so can select another player who isn't gaining English experience already in the squad. They can pick Cooper when he's playing in England already, or they could pick Carters who's sitting on his arse studying economics all winter, and get two-for-the-price-of-one increases in experience in English conditions. That was their rationale for not picking Khawaja in the Australia A squad last year.

And last I checked, there aren't any formal eligibility criteria in terms of nationality when it comes to 'A' teams. KP, Kieswetter and Fawad Ahmed all played for the Lions/AusA before they were eligible to represent their country-proper, if memory serves.

And this quote:

Coopers status' is he is now qualifying for England under the EU policy,because when you sign as a local you must sign your loyaloties to England.He won't be able to play for the Dutch now as well.

Is completely and utterly wrong, and nothing but the bull**** ideological 'lol not English' rubbish. I see that George Dockrell, Will Porterfield, Paul Stirling, Ed Joyce, Matt Machan, Josh Davey, Callum McLeod, Rob Taylor, Tim Murtagh, Kyle Coetzer, Preston Mommsen, Matthew Cross, David Murphy, Iain Wardlaw, Niall O'Brien, Andy Balbirnie, Stuart Poynter, Gary Wilson, Peter Chase, Graeme McCarter and Kevin O'Brien have all, without exception, had to "sign [their] loyaloties" to England and give up playing for their Associate team to play county cricket.

Sure, some have -- Alexi Kervezee and now Boyd Rankin come to mind as guys who have given up Associate cricket (or, in Rankin's case, shown little impetus to return) for the sake of County stability. And yeah, Joyce, Morgan and Rankin all represented England, but that isn't the same thing at all.

Cooper might choose to qualify with England for some strange reason, but it certainly isn't him giving up his Dutch spot or any future Australian representation, as brockley is dishonestly representing it to be.

 

[morgieb]

He's half right about Cooper; he can't play for Australia as he's signed on as a local player in county cricket. He can however play for the Netherlands if he wants.

Handscomb signed as an overseas player though, so he's free to play for Australia.

BBC still says he's there on a British passport. So I have NFI what the dealio with Handscomb is.

 

[Prince EWS]

BBC still says he's there on a British passport. So I have NFI what the dealio with Handscomb is.

He's definitely there as an overseas player; even the ECB website says so.

 

[Riggins]

He's half right about Cooper; he can't play for Australia as he's signed on as a local player in county cricket. He can however play for the Netherlands if he wants.

Handscomb signed as an overseas player though, so he's free to play for Australia.

Why not?

 

[Prince EWS]

Why not?

You can't be considered a local of two full member nations at once, essentially. If he's playing county cricket as a local he can't play for Australia. He can as soon as his contract expires though and he's only signed a one season deal.

 

[brockley]

Not dishonest a misunderstanding rather,don't be so conspiratal.

Anyway if he is playing 6 months england 6 months Australia he won't get to play for Holland anyway.
But I am right he can't play for Australia anymore,and he can qualify for England in 4 years due to his Dutch heritage.

 

[Prince EWS]

Not dishonest a misunderstanding rather,don't be so conspiratal.

Anyway if he is playing 6 months england 6 months Australia he won't get to play for Holland anyway.
But I am right he can't play for Australia anymore,and he can qualify for England in 4 years due to his Dutch heritage.

Yeah pretty much. He's not banned from playing for Australia forever though; just for the length of his county contract (which is 6 months..). He might sign another one after that, but he might not.

 

[Prince EWS]

And actually, the new(ish) ECB rules would make him wait the full seven before qualifying for them.

 

[Dan]

And actually, the new(ish) ECB rules would make him wait the full seven before qualifying for them.

Is that only if he's qualifying from his Australian passport, whereas if he's playing on his Dutch passport he could hypothetically be poached by England at any time? Or did the likes of Morgan/Rankin/Joyce have to qualify by residency first?

Basically, how do the Irish qualify for England -- is it the 4 (now 7) years or something else? And if we treat c00ps as Dutch, does the same logic apply to him?

 

[Prince EWS]

It applies to Irish guys too. I'm not sure what happened in the past with them but this is a new regulation so it's not tremendously relevant. It even applies to people with British passports if they weren't living in England or Wales before their 18th birthday.
ECB extend residency qualification to seven years | Daily Mail Online

As it's an ECB regulation rather than an ICC one though, they can make exceptions if they like. It's even been suggested elsewhere that it might not hold up in court, but as it stands an EU passport (or even a British one specifically) entitles you to employment rights but it does not necessarily entitle you to national team qualification.

 

[Riggins]

Yeah pretty much. He's not banned from playing for Australia forever though; just for the length of his county contract (which is 6 months..). He might sign another one after that, but he might not.

So if somehow we wanted to pick him in the Ashes, we couldn't, but when the home summer rolls around then it would be fine? Bizarre.

 

[morgieb]

So if somehow we wanted to pick him in the Ashes, we couldn't, but when the home summer rolls around then it would be fine? Bizarre.

If Cooper was to be picked for Australia in the Ashes he'd need to break his contract with Somerset, but by the time the home summer rolls around he won't have one. So yes.

 

[brockley]

I dunno because he has played for the Dutch.And if you are on an EU contract or from European team its 4 years to qualify for England.Paul Stirling been there 4 years and can qualify for England.Australia,South Africa,West Indies and Zimbabwe its 7 years or some other country outside Europe or UK.

Its interesting Cooper is Australian and Dutch,so it will be interesting in 4 years if Cooper is still playing County cricket as a local what they the ECB could do.

If Cooper stays 1 year fine and comes back,but an ECB contract is 12 months,so he will still have to find a new state,unless CA changes the rules and allows you 2 overseas players.And because his contract is 12 months he can't play for Australia,correct me if I am wrong.
It would be interesting whats going through Tom Coopers' mind.

 

[Prince EWS]

I dunno because he has played for the Dutch.And if you are on an EU contract or from European team its 4 years to qualify for England.

Nah they've changed the rules; it's seven regardless. It's even seven if you're on a British passport but didn't live there before you turned 18.

They can make exceptions if they like, and they probably will for Irish guys if it comes up.. but the rules as they stand make it seven for them too.

 

[Prince EWS]

Here is the actual rule:

3 Qualification of Players (Men and Boys)

3.1 Regulations Governing the Qualification of Cricketers for England


Subject to the overriding discretion of the ECB, acting with the consent of the International Cricket Council, a Cricketer will only be qualified to play for England in a Test Match or in a One Day International Match if:


(a) he is either a British citizen or an Irish citizen; and


(b1) he was born within England and Wales; or
(b2) he has been resident in England and Wales for theimmediately preceding four consecutive years if hisresidence commenced prior to his 18th birthday and orseven years if his residence in England and Walescommenced after his 18th birthday; and


(c) he has not during the immediately preceding four consecutive years either
(i) played cricket for any ICC Full Member Country outside the EEA at U17 level or above, or
(ii) played First Class Cricket in any such Full Member Country except as an overseas cricketer under local rules(

Players need to satisfy A, either B1 or B2, and C.

No special rules for EU passports; that only applies to county cricket (obviously that's what used to get residency in the first place though).

So Cooper would absolutely be looking at seven years if he wanted to play for England, via A+B2+C. Stirling would too, but Dockrell probably wouldn't as he would've started his qualification process before this rule came into place (it wasn't retrospective). The ECB have the ability to discretionarily change this to four if they feel like it.

 

[Prince EWS]

Looking a c)ii)... if Australia (or the ICC) has a similar rule then it may mean Cooper couldn't play for Australia for four years after this county season, not just the length of the county season.

 

[Riggins]

It's very strange to me that you can be eligible to represent no-one in internationals.

 

[Prince EWS]

Looking a c)ii)... if Australia (or the ICC) has a similar rule then it may mean Cooper couldn't play for Australia for four years after this county season, not just the length of the county season.

I've checked and the ICC doesn't have such a rule, so it'd just be for the length of Cooper's contract (6 months or 12 months -- not sure) as far as they were concerned. Australia might but their rules aren't easily found online.