Australia Vs Pakistan

[anzac]

i hate to say it but i think this Pakistan team is a reflection of the internal politics going on within the team & management at the moment.

If the article posted on cricinfo is any indication then this infighting has been going on for some time and tends to rear it's ugly head on a semi regular basis.

it would appear to be a case of too many favorites both with the players and management, and perhaps too many egos acting like self centered spoilt brats, rather than representatives of their country!!!!

I think that while the injuries may be legitimate, it is also a convenient time & excuse / opportunity to have them seen to now while all this is going on. IMO some players have 'bailed' to distance themselves, others have been 'rested' due to injury!!!!!!!

3-0 to Aus in the series. Hopefully someone from the Pak teams will show some positive character and get stuck in, but I think Pak cricket is going backwards at the moment.

IMO they run the risk of falling on their sword and entering a crisis like the WI (all be it of a different type). I hope it will not be as devastating but they could fall back into the bunch with SL, NZ, India & England & struggle for some time ahead.

 

[aussie_beater]

......but they could fall back into the bunch with SL, NZ, India & England & struggle for some time ahead....

What does that mean ??? .....Pakistani cricket has been in trouble of this kind for quite a while and they aren't anywhere near to the top today as they weren't a couple of years back.They have always been in that bunch , haven't they ?

 

[yorker]

re

This has gotta be a conspiracy !

The whole side cant have gone down with injuries !!!????

If they had to do this experimenting thing it should have been done ages ago. Thats why i refuse to believe that injury is the culprit.

They cant expect to win with this side, a new team like this is not thrown into battle with the top team in the world. That will demoralise the lads and bring too much pressure onto them to perform.
This is suicide. I have doubt this squad will prove me wrong. They are promising but i think the Selectors (if at all they had a choice) have put one bg step wrong. Seriously i dont know where Pakistan cicket is headed. Any ideas?


. [/quote]

Inzamam and youhanna are injured for sure, Inzamam is going to undergo an operation for Heel Injury while Youhanna too is going to have an orthoscopy done in Australia for Shoulder injury.
Waseem Akram is being said to have reached an agreement with the board and he will only be playing onedayers till the WC.Waseem simply doesn't fit into the Test team, if Pak goes with three seamers then the third pacer should be Sami and not Akram!

The big mistake that the Board and Captain is making is that they have opted to go into the series without Saeed Anwar.I know Saeed has been struggling lately BUT when the other seniors are not available it's not wise to go in with newcommers.I read somewhere that Saeed wated to play but Waqar thought otherwise, even if the news is not true, Waqar could have easily convinced Anwar to play against Aus keeping in mind that the batters in the squad are totally inexperianced.

In short the series will be a disaster for Pak,will be 3-0 to Australia!

 

[royGilchrist]

For the fear of sounding cliched, lets not count the chickens before the eggs are hatched', its not a foregone conclusion that Aus will beat Pak 3-0. Stranger things have happened. But I just hope that Waqar doesnt use this series to test youngsters, instead they should give it their best shot to win or draw the series. Maybe some young talented players will come out this as stars.

 

[yorker]

Originally posted by royGilchrist
For the fear of sounding cliched, lets not count the chickens before the eggs are hatched', its not a foregone conclusion that Aus will beat Pak 3-0. Stranger things have happened. But I just hope that Waqar doesnt use this series to test youngsters, instead they should give it their best shot to win or draw the series. Maybe some young talented players will come out this as stars.

I agree with u, i do think that Pak will lose the series, maybe it might not be a white wash, but i hope that some youngsters does impress especially the batters.
The good thing is that Pak think tank have finally realised that specialists are required in test matches and not bits and pieces players,dropping Afridi and Malik was a wise decision

 

[Gotchya]

What does that mean ??? .....Pakistani cricket has been in trouble of this kind for quite a while and they aren't anywhere near to the top today as they weren't a couple of years back.They have always been in that bunch , haven't they ?

Whoaa....Now what is that supposed to mean?

Pakistan have been right at the top over these years, they have been consistetnly beating India,England, New Zealand and Sri Lanka.
Being second best only to Australia (sometimes looking beter than them). Yes, you could say that the politics has been the issue all along, which is alomst always what lets them down. Surely you cant dispute the teams performance.

 

[aussie_beater]

Pakistan have been right at the top over these years, they have been consistetnly beating India,England, New Zealand and Sri Lanka.

Really.....when ?? Maybe I missed all that action :wow:

As I recall Pakistan has been losing test series to even minnows like Zimbabwe at home....not to mention Sri Lanka and England.They could only pull off series draws against NZ except for the very recent one which had to be curtailed.As for India-Pak matches there haven't been even any consistency in the matches taking place to claim that any side beat the other with consistency.

 

[Gotchya]

Really.....when ?? Maybe I missed all that action

Yes. You seem to have closed your eyes at just the wrong/right time. Maybe too busy watching India :duh:

As I recall Pakistan has been losing test series to even minnows like Zimbabwe at home....not to mention Sri Lanka and England.They could only pull off series draws against NZ except for the very recent one which had to be curtailed.As for India-Pak matches there haven't been even any consistency in the matches taking place to claim that any side beat the other with consistency.

You know very well what i am talking about. !

Pakistan's record at home has been poor recently. The defeats against England and Zimbabwe came during a patch, and personally I dont give too much weight to the Sri Lanka/Pakistan test recently, its stupid and disruptive cirkcet. Over the last couple of years along with Australia Pakistan have lifted the most number of trophies. I dont think many will disagree that Pakistan have been a very succesful Unit over the years. The awful patches are part of Pakistani cricket.

Tests have been far and wide, which is a very sorry sight. But ofcourse again if a few defeats against many wins are overwhelming for you, to say that Pakistan are not a top team than well you have an eccentric opinion.
On current form they are not anywhere near top, but they will struggle against any team on current form.
But to suggest that that has been the case over the years is nothing short of proposterous.

(talking about one dayers)

As for India-Pakistan matches, i cant remember when India beat Pakistan with any authority, Back in Sahara 4-1 is the only example that comes to mind, i'll illuminate the situation for you :

Taking into account the last five years, India and Pakistan have played 19 ODI's, with Pakistan emerging as the winners 14 times (73.7%). Thats consistent enough for me. Over all Pakistan have a 64% win ratio against India. Only 3 Tests played in the 1990's with Pakistan winning 2 and India 1.

Off the 45 played in total 9 for Pakistan and 5 for India. The many draws were a ersult to dead wickets being prepered in both countries.

Similarly, in the last five years Pakistan played 8 ODI's against England, winning 6 times. (75%)

Agianst Nz :
Last 4 years : Played 16 Won 12 L 4 (75%)


Against Sri Lanka its breaks out to be more even :

Last five years : Played 25 Won 12 Lost 12 NR 1 50%
Consequently Sri Lanka are a better team.

Do i even need to elaborate further ?

 

[aussie_beater]

[Tests have been far and wide, which is a very sorry sight. But ofcourse again if a few defeats against many wins are overwhelming for you, to say that Pakistan are not a top team than well you have an eccentric opinion.

If you are talking about ODIs only, you should qualify your earlier statement as such.Test matches are a totally different ball game and Pak is at best a very mediocre side in the highest form of the game.Look at the stats and there is not much to be interpreted there.

Yes Pak has been a better team in the ODIs.No one denies that.But I thought we were talking about the upcoming Pak-Aus test series and that was the context in which I was interpreting your statements.

 

[yorker]

Originally posted by aussie_beater

Pakistan have been right at the top over these years, they have been consistetnly beating India,England, New Zealand and Sri Lanka.

Really.....when ?? Maybe I missed all that action :wow:

As I recall Pakistan has been losing test series to even minnows like Zimbabwe at home....not to mention Sri Lanka and England.They could only pull off series draws against NZ except for the very recent one which had to be curtailed.As for India-Pak matches there haven't been even any consistency in the matches taking place to claim that any side beat the other with consistency.

Pak won the last series against SL in SL by a 2-0 margin.The ATC was NOT A TEST SERIES, so it can't be considered.Against England, Pakistan drew the last series, before that England won a series in Pak BUT Pak have been beating England in Test series since a long time.WI was thrashed by Pak at neutral venue while NZ were lucky not to have lost the last series.

Truth is that Pak have not been playing test matches lately due to unfortunate circumstances thats why their rating is poor.If u can call Pak team very mediocre at best then what have u to say about teams like NZ,India,WI,SL ?? Only a fool would look at the stats coz when the team haven't been playing test matches since some time then what are u gonna concude by looking at the stats?



[Edited on 23/9/2002 by yorker]

 

[aussie_beater]

In the past five years(since 1997) Pak's success rate in test matches out of a total of 24 tests in which results were produced is a dismal 41 %(10 won and 14 lost).That is at par with India's 43 % success rate(14 won and 18 lost).And that's over the last five years and not just the past year or so, when there have been all the unfortunate problems.And remember I am talking of only matches that had a result either way.

So Pak is pretty much in that mediocre bunch of teams in test matches, and nowhere near to teams like Aus and SA.

[Edited on 23/9/2002 by aussie_beater]

 

[basil]

Ok lets have a look at the stats!

Last 20 test matches played by various teams.

W L
Aus 13 4
SL 13 6
SA 8 6
Pak 10 5
Eng 6 8
Ind 6 7
NZ 7 5
WI 4 10.

Pak record doesn't look that bad, while one can say that Pak have won against weak teams like Bang and WI, when should also keep in mind that Pak was also deprived of a certain series win against NZ.
I would say that Aus & SA are definately better than Pak in test matches, while England also have an edge.The rest will struggle against a full fledge Pak team!

 

[aussie_beater]

Originally posted by basil
Ok lets have a look at the stats!

Last 20 test matches played by various teams.

W L
Aus 13 4
SL 13 6
SA 8 6
Pak 10 5
Eng 6 8
Ind 6 7
NZ 7 5
WI 4 10.

Pak record doesn't look that bad, while one can say that Pak have won against weak teams like Bang and WI, when should also keep in mind that Pak was also deprived of a certain series win against NZ.
I would say that Aus & SA are definately better than Pak in test matches, while England also have an edge.The rest will struggle against a full fledge Pak team!

As the stats bear out and you stated, they are not at par with Aus and SA.There record shows that they are at par with the bunch(SL,Eng,India,NZ) that was referred to earlier by anzac.

 

[yorker]

Originally posted by aussie_beater
In the past five years(since 1997) Pak's success rate in test matches out of a total of 24 tests in which results were produced is a dismal 41 %(10 won and 14 lost).That is at par with India's 43 % success rate(14 won and 18 lost).And that's over the last five years and not just the past year or so, when there have been all the unfortunate problems.And remember I am talking of only matches that had a result either way.

So Pak is pretty much in that mediocre bunch of teams in test matches, and nowhere near to teams like Aus and SA.

[Edited on 23/9/2002 by aussie_beater]

No one is saying that Pak is at par with Aus and SA, however they have been better than many other teams.

I think Basil's stats tells a better picture, i have no idea as to from where u got those stats.Lemme provide u some.

Pak rec in last 20 test w 10 L 5
last 25 test W 11 L 8
last 30 test w 13 L 10
last 35 test W 14 L 12.
last 40 test W 15 L13
last 45 test W 17 L15

Its clear that ur stats were misleading coz by the time they had lost 14 test matches, they had won well above 14 test matches and not just ten!

 

[basil]

[i

As the stats bear out and you stated, they are not at par with Aus and SA.There record shows that they are at par with the bunch(SL,Eng,India,NZ) that was referred to earlier by anzac.

No one can compare Pak with Aus and SA but they are certainly better than India,Wi, and NZ

 

[aussie_beater]

Originally posted by basil

No one can compare Pak with Aus and SA but they are certainly better than India,Wi, and NZ

No, no.....let's not get drifted here...the original claim was that Pak was right at the top and God forbid that they should fall into the "bunch" of India,Eng,SL and NZ.There was no WI there.

Surely SL cannot be put in the same league as SA and Aus and the same applies to Pak.To say that Pak can beat India,Eng and all that we can resolve the dispute fairly easily for England's case.In their last two series England won once by a margin of 1-0 and the other series was drawn 1-1.And with India, its been over three years since the last match was played and so there cannot be any conclusive statement on who will win.Its a matter of opinion and not fact.

 

[BengalCat]

[
Even Sa is not at par with Aus!

[Edited on 23/9/2002 by BengalCat]

 

[basil]

[
]

No, no.....let's not get drifted here...the original claim was that Pak was right at the top and God forbid that they should fall into the "bunch" of India,Eng,SL and NZ.There was no WI there.

Surely SL cannot be put in the same league as SA and Aus and the same applies to Pak.To say that Pak can beat India,Eng and all that we can resolve the dispute fairly easily for England's case.In their last two series England won once by a margin of 1-0 and the other series was drawn 1-1.And with India, its been over three years since the last match was played and so there cannot be any conclusive statement on who will win.Its a matter of opinion and not fact.

Did i claimed that Pak was at par with Sa/Aus? if not then what's the point in pointing it to me?
England won a test in Pak, however u have ignored Pak previous series victories against Eng.However i have said that England do have an edge over Pak.

As for India, they have been a weak Test team, few will agree with ur claim that they are better than Pak, India simply doesn't have the bowling to win test series!

 

[aussie_beater]

Originally posted by basil

Did i claimed that Pak was at par with Sa/Aus? if not then what's the point in pointing it to me?
England won a test in Pak, however u have ignored Pak previous series victories against Eng.However i have said that England do have an edge over Pak.

That was the claim that prompted all this discussion and that's what I pointed out.Yes I know it was not you.We were looking into Pakistan's position in the test cricket chart.

I have give you stats of the last five years.There's no point at looking beyond that to determine the current Pak team's position.

As for India, they have been a weak Test team, few will agree with ur claim that they are better than Pak, India simply doesn't have the bowling to win test series!

Now where did I claim that India was better then Pak ? I said that you cannot say who is better between the two as there haven't been matches played between them for over three years now.Yes India is a weak test team.My point is that so is Pak.As for who is weaker between the two, it can only be decided in a series between the two and we can discuss our opinions in another thread as its a totally different discussion.

[Edited on 23/9/2002 by aussie_beater]

 

[devdas]

[/quote]


Pak is at best a very mediocre side in the highest form of the game.
. [/quote]


At its best Pakistan can match and even dominate test matches against SA, as one can see from the last two test series in SA! So if they are mediocre st their best then SA must be a weak team for sure!

Thats a different thing that they can't maintain the same level throuout the yr, thats why they are behind SA and Aus!