Australia Vs Pakistan

[basil]

quote][i

I have give you stats of the last five years.There's no point at looking beyond that to determine the current Pak team's position.

[/quote]


Those stats were DISTORTED, Pak always had a higher winning ratio, whatever u came up with is misleading.

Also, remember that Pak had to play just two test matches in England last time, it was hardy a series that's why i reffered to
the earlier series.

 

[aussie_beater]

Originally posted by devdas


At its best Pakistan can match and even dominate test matches against SA, as one can see from the last two test series in SA! So if they are mediocre st their best then SA must be a weak team for sure!

Yeah and Pak's recent record against SA is 1 win and 2 losses.Doesn't look like Pak dominance to me.And that's in the five year timeframe that I am looking at.

See, Pak was a very good test team till about 1996.But from there on, its been a downhill drive and the results show only mediocrity and there is no point in comparing them to the top two teams of Aus and SA.This talk about Pak having enormous potential is all very good but the results aren't there for whatever reasons and that's all that counts.Period.

 

[aussie_beater]

Originally posted by basil
Those stats were DISTORTED, Pak always had a higher winning ratio, whatever u came up with is misleading.

Yeah ??....show me what you got.Its not that hard....look it up in the cricinfo before calling it distorted.Get your facts before making such ridiculous assertions.

 

[basil]

[

Pak rec in last 20 test w 10 L 5
last 25 test W 11 L 8
last 30 test w 13 L 10
last 35 test W 14 L 12.
last 40 test W 15 L13
last 45 test W 17 L15

Its clear that ur stats were misleading coz by the time they had lost 14 test matches, they had won well above 14 test matches and not just ten!

If only u had read the replies:rolleyes:

 

[devdas]

[i

Yeah and Pak's recent record against SA is 1 win and 2 losses.Doesn't look like Pak dominance to me.And that's in the five year timeframe that I am looking at.

See, Pak was a very good test team till about 1996.But from there on, its been a downhill drive and the results show only mediocrity and there is no point in comparing them to the top two teams of Aus and SA.This talk about Pak having enormous potential is all very good but the results aren't there for whatever reasons and that's all that counts.Period.

I thought i made it clear that i was talking about Pak performance in away series.I had made it clear that they can't maintain the level of the game and thus are behind SA and Aus.

Pak last played against SA in SA in '98 (so it was after '96 and in 5 yr time frame) and SA were lucky enough to have drawn the series in the final test!

 

[basil]

Just to prove my point.Pak wins since '97

1 1st test vs WI at Peshawar
2 2nd test vs WI at Rawalpindi
3 3rd test vs WI at Karachi
4 2nd test vs SA at Durbin
5 2nd test vs Zimb at Harare
6 1st test vs Ind at Chenni
7 1st match against Ind at Kolkata
8 final(atc) against SL at dhaka
9 3rd test vs SL at Karachi
10 1st test vs SL at columbo
11 2nd test vs SL at galle
12 1st test against NZ at auckland
13 2nd test against Eng at manchester
14 1st match vs Bang at Multan
15 1 st test vs bang at dhaka
16 2nd test vs bang at chittagong
17 1st test vs wi at sharjah
18 2nd test vs WI at sharjah
19 1st test vs NZ at sharjah


Simple isn't it, the results are of matches since 97.19 wins, but some are counting them as ten!


:rolleyes:

 

[aussie_beater]

Originally posted by basil

[

Pak rec in last 20 test w 10 L 5
last 25 test W 11 L 8
last 30 test w 13 L 10
last 35 test W 14 L 12.
last 40 test W 15 L13
last 45 test W 17 L15

Its clear that ur stats were misleading coz by the time they had lost 14 test matches, they had won well above 14 test matches and not just ten!

If only u had read the replies:rolleyes:

Exclude Bangladesh from that mix...and just try looking at the other eight test playing nations.Here is the breakup of each series in the last five years on tour and at home.

Against Aus = 0-3/0-1
Against SA = 1-1/0-1
Against Eng = 1-1/0-1
Against NZ = 1-1/1-0
Against SL = 2-0/1-2
Against WI = 0-1/3-0/2-0
Against ZIM = 1-0/0-1
Against Ind = 2-1

That totals to 15 wins and 14 losses.



[Edited on 23/9/2002 by aussie_beater]

 

[aussie_beater]

Simple isn't it, the results are of matches since 97.19 wins, but some are counting them as ten!

Yes its not ten, but 15...my fault at calculation.

And that five test discrepancy is by beating up WI at home and Sharjah.A full five tests right there.

[Edited on 23/9/2002 by aussie_beater]

[Edited on 23/9/2002 by aussie_beater]

 

[marc71178]

Against England, Pakistan drew the last series, before that England won a series in Pak BUT Pak have been beating England in Test series since a long time.

You can't disregard a couple of series just to suit your point.

Over the last 2 series England won 1 and the other was drawn in very dubious (umpiring-wise) circumstances.

 

[marc71178]

Truth is that Pak have not been playing test matches lately due to unfortunate circumstances thats why their rating is poor.

Wrong, that has no bearing on rating as it's based on last series played.

 

[marc71178]

Originally posted by basil
Ok lets have a look at the stats!

Last 20 test matches played by various teams.

W L
Aus 13 4
SL 13 6
SA 8 6
Pak 10 5
Eng 6 8
Ind 6 7
NZ 7 5
WI 4 10.

Pak record doesn't look that bad, while one can say that Pak have won against weak teams like Bang and WI, when should also keep in mind that Pak was also deprived of a certain series win against NZ.

Since you're using individual matches that series comment is irrelevant

I would say that Aus & SA are definately better than Pak in test matches, while England also have an edge.The rest will struggle against a full fledge Pak team!

I would actually disagree here - personally, on current form I would expect Pakistan and England to share a series or Pakistan edge it, and my allegiances are well known!

 

[anzac]

IMO the Pak team on paper has the talent and ability to beat ANY other team in either form of the game!!! I have long said that I consider the team to have the best balanced bowling attack & depth of resources, and a batting line up second to none.....

as suggested earlier in this thread I agree that they seem to mix up their good results followed by poor etc, and so are unable to put together a consistant series / season. This inconsistancy keeps them below the likes of Aus & SA, yet their talent and ability to decimate quality opposition keeps them ahead of the rest (may be not so far as stats go).

so far as the problems are concerned I believe the statements re Pakistan society as a whole may be truer than we think. I also believe that the same may be true of some of the Indian infrastructure problems.

I do not want to get into some protracted debate about the relative societies on this thread, but could it be that while the people are passionate / fanatical about the game, perhaps the ideology regarding consistancy, infrastructure, progression etc is somewhat irrelevant or not as important as it is to the likes of Aus & others.

What may be of most importance is their ability on any given day to beat anyone else when both teams play to their potential, not how many times they actually do it over the season. All the stats etc may have no significance.

This could also explain why this forum gets so many passionate but seemingly over the top comments from their respective fans - their passion IS the thing, especially knowing what their team or players can do. The fact that the team may have lost is irrelevant for example if their favorite player/s enhanced their reputations with their display.

I don't know - I just suspect that we are dealing with different mind sets - western & sub continent etc & the differences may be part of the so called problems. Maybe they are not so much 'problems' as just differences in objectives & priorities etc????? If so then they should be embraced to a certain extent as to each their own & last time I checked it was still ok to be different........

my apologies for straying off thread and sincere apologies if I am too far off topic....
I have not intended to belittle or offend, I am just trying to understand.....

:saint:

 

[basil]

]

You can't disregard a couple of series just to suit your point.

Over the last 2 series England won 1 and the other was drawn in very dubious (umpiring-wise) circumstances.

Well atleast the umpire wasn't for Pakistan! I have said it earlier England have an Edge over Pak, BUT as for the last two series ,i will say it again, the last one was hardly a series, a two match series is nothing but a joke.

 

[basil]

Originally posted by marc71178

Truth is that Pak have not been playing test matches lately due to unfortunate circumstances thats why their rating is poor.

Wrong, that has no bearing on rating as it's based on last series played.

Yup, it is based on last series but guess what, Pakistan was deprived of a series win against NZ coz of unfortunate circumstances, the series was called off, and the way Pak was hammering the kiwis , it would have been a white wash,so they ended up losing points!!!

 

[howzthat]

If you take out the three top batters from any team then it will struggle.
With Inzi and Youhanna out with injury, the wise thing to do would have been to retain Anwar.
Now we will have a team whose most experianced batter happen to be Younis Khan, someone who has played just 20 matches!! We are going to see a new set of openers, a new batter at one down position and these guys are going to take on the World champion Australian team!
To me it looks like a dumb experiment, one can do that against teams like Zimb and get away with it but against Aus it will be suicidal.

I can't u as to why Hassan Raza is recalled, he has been a total failure, i just wish Waqar doesn't make the mistake of picking him up for the final 11.

 

[Gotchya]

Wrong, that has no bearing on rating as it's based on last series played.

I always thought ratings were cumulative, over a period of one year.

 

[Gotchya]

You can't disregard a couple of series just to suit your point.

Conversely, you cant regard a couple of series to suit your point either :P

Essentially Pakistan are a better team when compared to England.

 

[marc71178]

Originally posted by basil

]

You can't disregard a couple of series just to suit your point.

Over the last 2 series England won 1 and the other was drawn in very dubious (umpiring-wise) circumstances.

Well atleast the umpire wasn't for Pakistan! I have said it earlier England have an Edge over Pak, BUT as for the last two series ,i will say it again, the last one was hardly a series, a two match series is nothing but a joke.

No, it wasn't a Pakistani umpire, but the number of no-balls he missed, he must have been blind!

 

[marc71178]

the last one was hardly a series, a two match series is nothing but a joke.

Yet you're happy to claim you were robbed from a 2 match series in Pakistan's favour.

 

[marc71178]

Yup, it is based on last series but guess what, Pakistan was deprived of a series win against NZ coz of unfortunate circumstances, the series was called off, and the way Pak was hammering the kiwis , it would have been a white wash,so they ended up losing points!!!

They haven't lost points, just not received an extra point. I thought the ICC would insist on the series being completed on neutral territory to be honest.