Atul Sharma

[Uppercut]

No use comparing back ups with first choices of the teams. Compare them with the back ups of various teams and they stack up pretty decently.

Yeah maybe- Munaf is actually currently India's third seamer though, is he not?

 

[Manee]

Yeah maybe- Munaf is actually currently India's third seamer though, is he not?

Yes, but in hindsight, he probably won't play that role for a while. New Zealand pitches were considered to be very seamer friendly whereas they had enough in for Harbhajan Singh and were not totally grassy. I feel that the combination of Zaheer, Ishant, Harbhajan, Mishra, will be the full strength combination worldwide for the foreseeable future.

 

[Jono]

Yeah maybe- Munaf is actually currently India's third seamer though, is he not?

Not for long, Atul Sharma will be soon.



*runs*

 

[DaRick]

No use comparing back ups with first choices of the teams. Compare them with the back ups of various teams and they stack up pretty decently.

Munaf may classify as a backup under spin-suited conditions, but not necessarily on greentops or anything with a bit in it for the pacemen. Harbhajan did do very well against NZ, but their batting line-up is just developing.

As for RP Singh, he was a frontliner not too long ago (along with Sreesanth and Khan). Some of the backups I've compared him with haven't even played Test cricket.

 

[Pratters]

Munaf may classify as a backup under spin-suited conditions, but not necessarily on greentops or anything with a bit in it for the pacemen. Harbhajan did do very well against NZ, but their batting line-up is just developing.

As for RP Singh, he was a frontliner not too long ago (along with Sreesanth and Khan). Some of the backups I've compared him with haven't even played Test cricket.

RP Singh isn't India's frontline bowler. He was in England and given the conditions he can bowl fairly well.

7) New Zealand: Probably not ahead of Martin and O'Brien (as of late, anyway), but Southee is the most condition-reliant bowler I've ever seen and Shane Bond is unavailable right now. So maybe as a third seamer.
EDIT: I forgot about Mills and Franklin, but neither have been at their best lately.

8) West Indies: Edwards has improved of late and Jerome Taylor is ahead, too. They'd be a lock for third seamer, though.

You are comparing with the main bowlers of the sides like Edwards. They shouldn't even deserve a mention in the discussion as we are talking about back up seamers.

 

[DaRick]

RP Singh isn't India's frontline bowler. He was in England and given the conditions he can bowl fairly well.

I know, but he was a while ago, unlike some of the guys I've compared him with, who haven't played Test cricket.

I also don't deny RP Singh's ability to be a threat when the ball is moving. It's just that he has nothing to fall back on when it doesn't.

You are comparing with the main bowlers of the sides like Edwards. They shouldn't even deserve a mention in the discussion as we are talking about back up seamers.

In the case of Edwards, the comparison was just done for the sake of it, as one or the other would easily get into that WI outfit, anyway.

Besides, does Munaf really qualify as a backup right now? Given that he's played very recently, I wouldn't think so (unlike RP, who hasn't played for over a year).

 

[adharcric]

I also don't deny RP Singh's ability to be a threat when the ball is moving. It's just that he has nothing to fall back on when it doesn't.

Hmm, not quite. Early on, he used to bowl a shorter length, get awkward bounce and use that angle and subtle movement to take wickets. He was pretty consistent without being too dangerous but he had the ability to take wickets without much help from the pitch (for example, that test against Pakistan where India's bowling was flayed but RPS looked good). He was dropped from the one-day side and during the ensuing period away from the team, you could see a change in his approach. He started pitching it up, getting more swing, bowling quicker but strayed wide outside off or down the leg far too often. In short, his current approach doesn't bode too well on difficult pitches but he is definitely capable of being more reliable IMO.

 

[DaRick]

Hmm, not quite. Early on, he used to bowl a shorter length, get awkward bounce and use that angle and subtle movement to take wickets. He was pretty consistent without being too dangerous but he had the ability to take wickets without much help from the pitch (for example, that test against Pakistan where India's bowling was flayed but RPS looked good). He was dropped from the one-day side and during the ensuing period away from the team, you could see a change in his approach. He started pitching it up, getting more swing, bowling quicker but strayed wide outside off or down the leg far too often. In short, his current approach doesn't bode too well on difficult pitches but he is definitely capable of being more reliable IMO.

During that initial 2006 series against Pakistan, he become progressively more expensive and ineffective. I admit that I haven't seen that series. I'm familiar with the 'second' RP Singh, so to speak.

I don't doubt that he can become more reliable. If Anderson did, then RP Singh certainly can. The fact is, he isn't and he hasn't...yet.

 

[Manee]

During that initial 2006 series against Pakistan, he become progressively more expensive and ineffective. I admit that I haven't seen that series. I'm familiar with the 'second' RP Singh, so to speak.

I don't doubt that he can become more reliable. If Anderson did, then RP Singh certainly can. The fact is, he isn't and he hasn't...yet.

Something which hinders RP Singh greatly is his wrist position. It is angled towards fine leg which means he can get prodigious outswing away from the left handed batsmen, some swing into the right hander, but that his accuracy will likely always be an issue unless he is pounding towards the crease and has a great deal of energy going towards the batsmen.

 

[Pratters]

Besides, does Munaf really qualify as a backup right now? Given that he's played very recently, I wouldn't think so (unlike RP, who hasn't played for over a year).

If Munaf isn't backup, Sreesanth is. The larger point that India has a decent back up bench strength of bowlers remains.

 

[Manee]

7 page feature of Atul in SPIN magazine this month.

Atul Sharma exclusive interview and pics in June issue of Spin magazine : SPIN - The Cricket Magazine

 

[oitoitoi]

Any chance some dedicated subscriber feels like scanning some of those pics? I'm suprised they haven't given him a pop since Kamran Khan went down. Perhaps they're waiting for their next game vs KKR....

 

[silentstriker]

Or.....he isn't going to get a game this season, as many of us thought. It would be quite improbable if a man who hasn't played any cricket game in seven years starts off with an IPL match as his first.

 

[Gowza]

well he was and i guess still is apparently injured.

 

[Cricket_God]

Hmm...RP Singh is like a left-arm version of James Anderson circa 2003-2007/08. He can deliver one or two good spells, but most of the time he bowls dross (his Test ER is over 4) and is cannon fodder when the ball refuses to move. So no, not entirely useless, but I certainly don't rate him.

IMO, Munaf Patel is a little bit better. He's generally more accurate than RP Singh and is therefore less expensive overall. He can also be a threat when in the mood. However, he is horribly inconsistent and often plays like he doesn't give a ****.

Neither add anything with the bat or in the field.

But let's have a look at the squads:

1) Australia: Nope - IMO, Johnson, Siddle, Hilfenhaus, Bollinger and Noffke would be ahead. EDIT: ...and Lee, but the point's a bit moot.

2) South Africa: Steyn and Ntini have the first two places sewn up, but Morne Morkel is not a hell of a lot better with the ball, whilst Albie's bowling doesn't strike me as being Test-class. Morne is a more talented batsman and a better fielder, though...so probably not. I can't say whether Parnell is better or not - he's played too little.

3) India: Could take the third seamer's position

4) Sri Lanka: Maybe as a third seamer (behind Vaas and Malinga)
EDIT: I forgot about Mendis. So the pitch would probably have to be an absolute greentop if either are going to be selected.

5) Pakistan: Obviously not if Pakistan has a full-strength team, but when was the last time that occured?

6) England: Well, if fit, Flintoff and Anderson are ahead, but beyond them, who knows? Broad isn't there yet, Amjad was a spray-gun in his only Test, Harmison has been past his peak for some years (bar the odd good performance) and Hoggard appears to have been pensioned off. Broad is a decent fielder and a very useful batsman, though.
EDIT: Oh, I forgot about Sidebottom, even though he's not been at his best lately.

7) New Zealand: Probably not ahead of Martin and O'Brien (as of late, anyway), but Southee is the most condition-reliant bowler I've ever seen and Shane Bond is unavailable right now. So maybe as a third seamer.
EDIT: I forgot about Mills and Franklin, but neither have been at their best lately.

8) West Indies: Edwards has improved of late and Jerome Taylor is ahead, too. They'd be a lock for third seamer, though.

Third seamers of countries-

1-Australia-Siddle,clark
2-southafrica-Parnell,Morkel
3-England-Does not matter
4-Srilanka-Does not need
5-Pakistan-Talha,sohail,arafat
6-Newzeland-Anybody can be third seamer
7-westindies-anybody

Actually Sreesanth is india third seamer and he is very good when fit,He is the fastest indian fast bowler to 50 wickets and bowls well in india and abroad.R.p singh,munaf
are backups for specific conditions and i think rp singh will be become a very good bowler
he has all the attributes for that and is just 23,Munaf does not have that hunger to improve
so he will fall out in a few years as he has got enough money and guys like tyagi,,umesh yadav,kumar will take over.

 

[oitoitoi]

Tyagi will never be test class. I think Munaf fits the 3rd seamer role quite nicely as he's someone you can rely on to bowl wicket to wicket, not give too much a away, and pick up a scalp or 2 in a day. He's there to support Zaheer and Ishant who are the main wicket takers. Basically he's there to do an angus fraser sort of job in tests. Sreesanth and RP are strike bowlers who can go for runs too and are both pretty heavily reliant on swing (give me a quick who isn't these days!).

 

[DaRick]

Tyagi will never be test class. I think Munaf fits the 3rd seamer role quite nicely as he's someone you can rely on to bowl wicket to wicket, not give too much a away, and pick up a scalp or 2 in a day. He's there to support Zaheer and Ishant who are the main wicket takers. Basically he's there to do an angus fraser sort of job in tests. Sreesanth and RP are strike bowlers who can go for runs too and are both pretty heavily reliant on swing (give me a quick who isn't these days!).

Munaf doesn't do that in practice (fulfill an Angus Fraser role). He's way too inconsistent and lacks Fraser's indefagatibility. He's there as third seamer, firstly because Sreesanth appears to be unavailable and secondly because he is a bit better than RP Singh, although neither Fraser nor Munaf can bat. True, Fraser was not especially penetrative on flat decks, but he was always accurate.

Mitchell Johnson is one bowler who has never utilised swing heavily. When he does, he's lethal, but he can still a load of wickets without it (like his 8/61 in Perth). I've never seen Peter Siddle as someone who relies on swing much, either. He uses angle, cut and a McDermott/Merv-esque attitude to take wickets.

 

[DaRick]

Actually Sreesanth is india third seamer and he is very good when fit,He is the fastest indian fast bowler to 50 wickets and bowls well in india and abroad.R.p singh,munaf are backups for specific conditions and i think rp singh will be become a very good bowler he has all the attributes for that and is just 23,Munaf does not have that hunger to improve so he will fall out in a few years as he has got enough money and guys like tyagi,,umesh yadav,kumar will take over.

The discussion did centre on Munaf and RP (notice how I said 'could' when commenting about their ability to fill the role of third Indian seamer), but you're right, Sreesanth is certainly better than those two. He can generate a lot of movement and he can indeed be lethal. Unfortunately, this is countered by his lousy control and his erratic temperament.

It's not inconceivable that RP Singh can become a decent bowler, but he has a lot to fix up. His lack of control and heavy reliance on the conditions, plus his lousy batting and fielding, hurt him significantly. Like I've said earlier, he has striking parallels to James Anderson, except that Anderson has improved recently.

I largely agree about Munaf. He can be a threat when he wants to be, but is non-committal and inconsistent. If Sreesanth returns and RP Singh improves, he may indeed find himself on the outer. He is better than RP, but not significantly so.

 

[Athlai]

Third seamers of countries-

1-Australia-Siddle,clark
2-southafrica-Parnell,Morkel
3-England-Does not matter
4-Srilanka-Does not need
5-Pakistan-Talha,sohail,arafat
6-Newzeland-Anybody can be third seamer
7-westindies-anybody

Actually Sreesanth is india third seamer and he is very good when fit,He is the fastest indian fast bowler to 50 wickets and bowls well in india and abroad.R.p singh,munaf
are backups for specific conditions and i think rp singh will be become a very good bowler
he has all the attributes for that and is just 23,Munaf does not have that hunger to improve
so he will fall out in a few years as he has got enough money and guys like tyagi,,umesh yadav,kumar will take over.

Oddly enough New Zealands third seamer position is firmly taken by O'Brien. Could open the bowling though.

 

[Uppercut]

Oddly enough New Zealands third seamer position is firmly taken by O'Brien. Could open the bowling though.

Indeed. Just like Flintoff, when fit, is almost always England's third seamer.