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Ashwin vs Kumble

Xix2565

International Regular
He is. Better in SA, Aus and Eng as far as match impact is concerned. Can't really compare in NZ.

Ashwin only exceeds Kumble in spin conditions or WI.
He isn't. Context suggests otherwise given that Ashwin doesn't have to carry the load as much post 2015, and Kumble for the large part was essentially overbowled and so statpadded. I don't think Kumble would've a much better record in SENA Tests that Ashwin has played in. As usual, you don't have anything to add here.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
He isn't. Context suggests otherwise given that Ashwin doesn't have to carry the load as much post 2015, and Kumble for the large part was essentially overbowled and so statpadded. I don't think Kumble would've a much better record in SENA Tests that Ashwin has played in. As usual, you don't have anything to add here.
In Aus, Kumble took 44 wickets in 7 tests against an ATG side in the 2000s, which exceeds anything Ashwin has done in the past two tours

In Eng, Kumble had an important contributing hand in two test victories in 2002 and 2007. Ashwin had minimal impact overall.

In SA, Ashwin has been a complete flop whereas Kumble has a few penetrative spells.
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
I almost want to give Subz credit, because yes, Kumble is better in SENA; but the idea that Ashwin hasn't done enough at home to be better is pretty baffling.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Hmm interesting. Where is this "impact" and "contribution to winning" argument when it comes to their performance in Australia .

Suspicious change of criteria there. 🤔🤔🤔
In England, neither Kumble or Ashwin have spectacular returns, Kumbles role in the victories just gives him in the edge.

Whereas in Aus, Kumble has two straight series of high volume of wickets against a top quality side which exceeds the contribution role of Ashwin in a couple of test wins.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
I almost want to give Subz credit, because yes, Kumble is better in SENA; but the idea that Ashwin hasn't done enough at home to be better is pretty baffling.
Because I think with DRS and the same wickets, Kumble would nearly match Ashwins returns. I do consider Ashwin a better home bowler but not by that margin. I can't accept someone as a better bowler with this level of away drop off.
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Because I think with DRS and the same wickets, Kumble would nearly match Ashwins returns. I do consider Ashwin a better home bowker but not by that margin.
It's honesty like saying, "had Venkatpaty Raju got stickies like Laker, he could had been better". Not saying it isn't a possibility, but too much of a hyperbole in place of real performance.
 

Xix2565

International Regular
In Aus, Kumble took 44 wickets in 7 tests against an ATG side in the 2000s, which exceeds anything Ashwin has done in the past two tours

In Eng, Kumble had an important contributing hand in two test victories in 2002 and 2007. Ashwin had minimal impact overall.

In SA, Ashwin has been a complete flop whereas Kumble has a few penetrative spells.
Again, none of this is proof of anything. Posting this while basically ignoring the past couple of pages of discussion on pitches is incredibly useless. It shows you aren't here for a discussion, just personal validation because you're subshakerz, not because you have anything worthwhile to share.
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Kumble's 37 average in SENA doesn't give him an advantage over Ashwin.
To Kumble's credit, irrespective of average, his last two tours of Australia were pretty good. I will actually call the 2005 one ATG as well, given how flat and high scoring it was. Pretty equal in England with slight advantage to Ashwin and slight advantage in SA to Kumble for having a few moments.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
It's honesty like saying, "had Venkatpaty Raju got stickies like Laker, he could had been better". Not saying it isn't a possibility, but too much of a hyperbole in place of real performance.
Well Kumble in the 90s when wickets were sporting took 5 wickets a game at a similar average. I think adding a touch better wickets, batsmen with poor T20 techniques and DRS would put him in Ashwin range. I saw Kumble and once on a roll, he was incredibly hard to face at home.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
To Kumble's credit, irrespective of average, his last two tours of Australia were pretty good. I will actually call the 2005 one ATG as well, given how flat and high scoring it was. Pretty equal in England with slight advantage to Ashwin and slight advantage in SA to Kumble for having a few moments.
Why slight advantage to Ashwin in Eng if Kumble actually helped in wins there?
 

OverratedSanity

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Neither Ashwin away average gives an advantage over Kumble despite the fact Kumble bowled in flat pitches.
Honestly I think this flat pitch BS is really overplayed. Kumble got a ****ton of real turners at home (especially in the 90s) until the early 2000s. It's only in the last 4-5 years where he bowled on consistently flat decks.

Also the pitches Ashwin has bowled on overseas these days have overall been waaaaaayyy worse for spin than in kumbles time where there were occasional dry pitches everywhere and test matches went the full 5 days much more often which allowed spinners to come into the game. Pretty ridiculous that this gets ignored and the focus is only on their respective home pitches.
 

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