Aren't the Englaishmen getting carried away??

[Barney Rubble]

By that definition, India has been clear #2 since 2001 or so.

Ermmm - no, because that was four years ago, and they have actually played some cricket since then. England have just won their sixth series in a row against the best team in the world, that wasn't the case when India beat them. And India didn't outplay them to the extent that England have, either, not to mention the fact that Indian pitches are far more helpful to Indian bowlers than English pitches are to English bowlers.

 

[Scaly piscine]

More of the usual tosh from C_C, obviously hasn't noticed England became only the second side to beat SA in SA since their break from Test cricket. Then there's NZ who are pretty close to the likes of Pakistan, India and Sri Lanka. England are clearly a better Test side than everyone bar Australia.

As for most valuable player I'd have Flintoff ahead of McGrath, Lara and especially Dravid. On a par with Warne and Murali because they're always in a game and they bowl so many overs, McGrath usually needs support from the other end and can't bat for toffee. The nature of Test cricket makes bowlers that bit more important - KP statistically was clear of everyone in the batting in The Ashes, but he only influenced one match and then it was because there was someone holding on at the other end. Look at how much influence Simon Jones or Warne had in comparison.

 

[C_C]

Ermmm - no, because that was four years ago, and they have actually played some cricket since then. England have just won their sixth series in a row against the best team in the world, that wasn't the case when India beat them. And India didn't outplay them to the extent that England have, either, not to mention the fact that Indian pitches are far more helpful to Indian bowlers than English pitches are to English bowlers.

Utter BS that English pitches are less helpful to English bowlers than Indian pitches are to Indian bowlers.
Hoggard, Harmison etc. are pretty much home cooked dough so far.
They have won their sixth or seventh series in a row, outta which 1 was Bangladesh,2 were west indies and 1 was zimbabwe- which is feeding on the minnows.
Not to mention, England won against Australia minus McGrath - he played 3 matches and in two of them, he was on one leg. I remember the very same English fans deriding the drawn series IND achieved in AUS on the same factors.

 

[C_C]

More of the usual tosh from C_C, obviously hasn't noticed England became only the second side to beat SA in SA since their break from Test cricket. Then there's NZ who are pretty close to the likes of Pakistan, India and Sri Lanka. England are clearly a better Test side than everyone bar Australia.

SInce when is NZ pretty close to India in Test cricket ?
The usual overhyped BS is comming from you, when my conclusions are justified by facts- England has only 2 seasons of doing good, where they beat an underpowered Australia and beat a lotta minnows.

As per as Flintoff goes, he is doing well but then again, he is at his physical peak....he still is overall pretty ordinary and interesting how you mentioned that McGrath needs support from the other end but refrained from that comment with respect to Flintoff. As far as i am concerned, McGrath can teach Flintoff a thing or three about bowling- Flintoff is bowling well- he still is nowhere close to some of the great bowlers when they were at their peak.

 

[marc71178]

The changed attitude of Justin Langer to the crowds (he's now probably one of the "barmy army's" favorite Australians where originally the relationship between the two was extremely rocky) is a good example of why it's best to take it as good humoured banter where possible.

One thing that immediately sticks in my mind was one of the early games (think it was Lords) where Langer was getting some stick from the crowd out on the mid wicket boundary.

Next minute he races 15 yards to his right and dives to one handed cut off a 4 at full stretch.

As one the crowd rise to applaud him and he bows to them.

 

[marc71178]

They have won their sixth or seventh series in a row, outta which 1 was Bangladesh,2 were west indies and 1 was zimbabwe- which is feeding on the minnows.

Sorry, but since when has 2001 been in the last 6 series?

 

[Pedro Delgado]

SInce when is NZ pretty close to India in Test cricket ?
The usual overhyped BS is comming from you, when my conclusions are justified by facts- England has only 2 seasons of doing good, where they beat an underpowered Australia and beat a lotta minnows.

As per as Flintoff goes, he is doing well but then again, he is at his physical peak....he still is overall pretty ordinary......

I stopped reading after that bit.

You just won't forgive us for the Raj, will you C_C.

 

[marc71178]

I missed that one, thanks for highlighting it for us.

Something makes me think that nobody will take one member of this forum seriously after a comment like that.

 

[Scaly piscine]

SInce when is NZ pretty close to India in Test cricket ?
The usual overhyped BS is comming from you, when my conclusions are justified by facts- England has only 2 seasons of doing good, where they beat an underpowered Australia and beat a lotta minnows.

You're right NZ aren't pretty close to India, I mean NZ won 2-0 at home and drew 0-0 away to India...

Your conclusions aren't remotely justified by anything.

 

[marc71178]

Yes, but SP what happened in the previous rotations?

Everyone knows that games from 5 or 6 years ago are critical to determining the ability of current sides!

 

[sqwerty]

It was only the first Test pitch that suited Harmison, the rest had little seam movement or pace in them. Apart from that he still took massively important wickets at various times, such as the final wicket in the second Test which he got virtually no credit for, Clarke with a slower ball, Langer in the last Test. If he'd have bowled more during the last Test when it was dark he would probably have flattered his series figures. Stick Harmison on a bowler friendly (as opposed to the Lara 400 ones) WI pitch and he'd rip through any team.

Well then Harmy's going to be disappointed ............because there ain't many bowler friendly decks (for quicks) in test cricket I'm afraid.

He's gotta rely on more than just a good deck to be rated

 

[sqwerty]

Answer is no we are not ! this is the best England Side that hass ever been and to beat an awesome Aussies side 2-1 and if it was not for Warne and Lee 4-1 is brilliant so stop your moaning and let us have our glory

Our do i sense the Aussies are bad losers

With all respect....I find it funny that English fans are claiming this is the "best English side that's ever been"

Sure they have a strong pace attack, great team spirit and self belief but surely it's plainly obvious they're still lacking in a number of departments.

I'm not meaning to put them down because they're likely to be a force in the near future but lose, say, Freddie and the side looks pretty stock standard.

 

[C_C]

Sorry, but since when has 2001 been in the last 6 series?

I wasnt responding to 2001- i was responding to the 'won six series in a row' comment.

 

[C_C]

I stopped reading after that bit.

You just won't forgive us for the Raj, will you C_C.

Take that bigoted comment where it belongs - in a skinhead group or clan.

You stopped reading after that bit ? i am sure- it seems that a lotta people here stop reading after they have been confronted with the truth. Lets recap for a moment- i said Flintoff is at his physical peak and his overall performance is nothing hoo-haa. I am sure 26-27 is considered the physical peak for a fast bowler and a 30+ average is nothing hoo-haa.
So please come again.

 

[C_C]

You're right NZ aren't pretty close to India, I mean NZ won 2-0 at home and drew 0-0 away to India...

Your conclusions aren't remotely justified by anything.

In that case, India is pretty close to England ( which is what i said all along) : 1-1 in England and 1-0 in India. TYVM!
And you have the gall to comment about my conclusions!

 

[Dasa]

Y'know...it seems to me that C_C at least attempts to justify his argument with facts and logic, whereas a lot of you people opposing him just resort to insults...

 

[Sanz]

In that case, India is pretty close to England ( which is what i said all along) : 1-1 in England and 1-0 in India. TYVM!
And you have the gall to comment about my conclusions!

OUCH !!!! That was hit hard. It will take weeks for SP to recover from this hit.

 

[Choora]

He has a long way to go with the bat though, and I'd still be picking McGrath, Warne, Murali, Dravid, Kallis, Ponting, Lara and Gilchrist in my team before Flintoff right now. As far as the best all-rounder in the world goes, it's no contest, he's it by a mile.

Completely agreed!

 

[Choora]

Can Flintoff keep ?

That was a good one

 

[marc71178]

I wasnt responding to 2001- i was responding to the 'won six series in a row' comment.

Yes, but since England last played Zimbabwe in something like 2001, it's not part of the 6 series.