Aren't the Englaishmen getting carried away??

[greg]

My objection is that not anybody should be labelled like that!

Flintoff's performance in the last two years is not that great to make him the greatest cricketer on Earth.

Well you give me your candidate and I'll make a case for Freddie. I think I will be able to make a decent case, based upon his allround performance, which is all that is really required for him to be arguably the greatest cricketer on the planet. Doesn't mean I'll be right - there can be more than one arguable greatest cricketers!

 

[Choora]

Last 6 series (OK this is 18 months)

The Wisden Trophy (Eng/WI) in West Indies, 2003/04 [Series]
Eng 4 200 102* 50.00 1 0 11 5/58 27.00 1 7 0
New Zealand in England, 2004 [Series]
Eng 3 216 94 54.00 0 3 10 3/60 29.10 0 2 0
The Wisden Trophy (Eng/WI) in England, 2004 [Series]
Eng 4 387 167 64.50 1 3 14 3/25 21.21 0 5 0
Basil D'Oliveira Trophy (Eng/SA) in South Africa, 2004/05 [Series]
Eng 5 227 77 28.37 0 2 23 4/44 24.95 0 2 0
Bangladesh in England, 2005 [Series]
Eng 2 - - - - - 9 3/44 15.33 0 1 0
The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in England, 2005 [Series]
Eng 5 402 102 40.20 1 3 24 5/78 27.29 1 3 0

What more do you want from him?

Runs against Bangladesh?!

So you actually think that on the basis on that performace he can be labelled as the greatest cricketer???

If he's the greatest, then where would the likes of Warne,McGrath, Muralitharan figure in ur opinion?

 

[sqwerty]

My objection is that not anybody should be labelled like that!

Flintoff's performance in the last two years is not that great to make him the greatest cricketer on Earth.

I guess it's not just the stats that count.

If you look at him in terms of how he can turn a match it's probably a fair assessment.

He certainly proved against Australia at least that he can be equally devastating with either bat or ball.

He's certainly come on in the last year. When I watched him in one of the recent series overseas....can't remember where it was.......he looked to me like a steady at best sort of bowler and a batsman that certainly didn't belong any higher than 7.

Now he could easily take the new ball for any national side in the world (except England) and he's a solid (though not 100% reliable) number 6 in my mind. I consider his bowling to be his strength but he's about as close to a complete all rounder as you get which the world rarely sees. He bats better than Kapil Dev, Imran Khan and Hadlee so he's right up there.

 

[Choora]

Well you give me your candidate and I'll make a case for Freddie. I think I will be able to make a decent case, based upon his allround performance, which is all that is really required for him to be arguably the greatest cricketer on the planet. Doesn't mean I'll be right - there can be more than one arguable greatest cricketers!

I just think that its premature to make a case about Freddie right now.Let him play more against the likes of India,Pak etc (as we are talking about greatest cricketer).Great players are proven performers against most teams, Freddie simply haven't played enough to be compared with any of the great players.

 

[simmy]

Botham has a canny habit of being "right" dont forget! He was saying years ago that England would have a fast and menacing bowling attack with Jones and Harmison and was correct.

To be honest... England have won the Ashes without their best bowler, Harmison, (sorry Freddie) doing much! His article did mention England's full strength bowling attack being a handful for any side... well if they too good for Aus without Harmison (which they were) then surely they only need to prove themselves in the sub-continent. I think a lot of people forget how good he really is. Like McGrath, who otherwise was a little wayward and a bit overrated, any pitch that offers him a little, like Lords, he gets stacks of wickets.

As for Freddie, he is the only player in the World who would get into sides for his batting and his bowling alone. This series, I thought his batting was understated due to his antics with the ball, he played some excellent knocks. Take out the Lords game, and his average soars up their along side anyones.

You could say that he is the best seamer in the world at the moment ARGUABLY anyway... so as his batting is as strong as it is, why cant he be the best cricketer on the planet?

I think the English press and Botham are hyping up the English side to get people interested again. Cricket in this country was dying before this series and now it is really challenging football in column inches and interest.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Flintoff's not particularly close to the best player in the world I don't think.

He's the second best seamer in the world, in my opinion. He's still got some competition from Shoaib, Pollock, and maybe Bond if he continues to develop etc, but right now I'd rate Flintoff second and Shoaib third.

He has a long way to go with the bat though, and I'd still be picking McGrath, Warne, Murali, Dravid, Kallis, Ponting, Lara and Gilchrist in my team before Flintoff right now. As far as the best all-rounder in the world goes, it's no contest, he's it by a mile.

 

[SpeedKing]

a. it's Botham

b. it's the Mirror

c. let them enjoy their brief moment in the sun

Its only fair enough isn't it. We are bound to celebarate defeating the world champions aren't we

 

[SpeedKing]

Flintoff's not particularly close to the best player in the world I don't think.

He's the second best seamer in the world, in my opinion. He's still got some competition from Shoaib, Pollock, and maybe Bond if he continues to develop etc, but right now I'd rate Flintoff second and Shoaib third.

He has a long way to go with the bat though, and I'd still be picking McGrath, Warne, Murali, Dravid, Kallis, Ponting, Lara and Gilchrist in my team before Flintoff right now. As far as the best all-rounder in the world goes, it's no contest, he's it by a mile.

But he would walk into any side in the world wouldn't he, and that is the bottom line

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Its only fair enough isn't it. We are bound to celebarate defeating the world champions aren't we

That's fine, but Botham isn't some random yob on the street celebrating the win and rambling on about how Flintoff is the best player in the world and Australia are going to get smashed next Ashes. He's a professional who is paid money to give his opinions on cricket, and hence he should be taken to task if he says something stupid, just like Thommo was in Australia.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

But he would walk into any side in the world wouldn't he, and that is the bottom line

Well sure he would. He'd make any side in the world on his bowling alone, includin the World XI. That doesn't make him the best player in the world though, it just makes him very good.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Botham, Lawry, Thommo...(there's probably more) ignore them all.

 

[age_master]

English always get carried away, dont worry, it will all be forgotten before long, look at the rugby team

 

[vladiator]

But he would walk into any side in the world wouldn't he, and that is the bottom line

But so would Gilchrist, Warne, Lara, etc...

 

[Slow Love™]

The slight air of desperation can be seen in the press quotes that they need to "find a Flintoff" - you don't produce these sort of players in 14 months, it takes years. Of course they may produce someone who manages to click for one series, but that's something that they can hope for more than expect.

We've been looking for a "Flintoff" or an "Imran" or a "Botham" for around thirty years, now. Australia was obsessed with finding an all-rounder in that vein even when they were on top of the world and beating everybody with ease. Of course, they just show up so rarely, and that's the problem. And IMO Shane Watson ain't gonna be it - but he might profit in terms of selection by the hope that he is.

 

[Deja moo]

To be honest... England have won the Ashes without their best bowler, Harmison, (sorry Freddie) doing much! His article did mention England's full strength bowling attack being a handful for any side... well if they too good for Aus without Harmison (which they were) then surely they only need to prove themselves in the sub-continent. I think a lot of people forget how good he really is. Like McGrath, who otherwise was a little wayward and a bit overrated, any pitch that offers him a little, like Lords, he gets stacks of wickets.

What do you mean "without Harmison" ? Harmison has had some excellent series' vs the likes of Nz and WI, and average ones against SA and Aus. Whats the argument against the present Harmison being the true Harmison and not the earlier version, which for all we know, could have been one of those bull runs players have in their careers ?

 

[Scaly piscine]

What do you mean "without Harmison" ? Harmison has had some excellent series' vs the likes of Nz and WI, and average ones against SA and Aus. Whats the argument against the present Harmison being the true Harmison and not the earlier version, which for all we know, could have been one of those bull runs players have in their careers ?

It was only the first Test pitch that suited Harmison, the rest had little seam movement or pace in them. Apart from that he still took massively important wickets at various times, such as the final wicket in the second Test which he got virtually no credit for, Clarke with a slower ball, Langer in the last Test. If he'd have bowled more during the last Test when it was dark he would probably have flattered his series figures. Stick Harmison on a bowler friendly (as opposed to the Lara 400 ones) WI pitch and he'd rip through any team.

 

[social]

Botham has a canny habit of being "right" dont forget! He was saying years ago that England would have a fast and menacing bowling attack with Jones and Harmison and was correct.

To be honest... England have won the Ashes without their best bowler, Harmison, (sorry Freddie) doing much! His article did mention England's full strength bowling attack being a handful for any side... well if they too good for Aus without Harmison (which they were) then surely they only need to prove themselves in the sub-continent. I think a lot of people forget how good he really is. Like McGrath, who otherwise was a little wayward and a bit overrated, any pitch that offers him a little, like Lords, he gets stacks of wickets.

As for Freddie, he is the only player in the World who would get into sides for his batting and his bowling alone. This series, I thought his batting was understated due to his antics with the ball, he played some excellent knocks. Take out the Lords game, and his average soars up their along side anyones.

You could say that he is the best seamer in the world at the moment ARGUABLY anyway... so as his batting is as strong as it is, why cant he be the best cricketer on the planet?

I think the English press and Botham are hyping up the English side to get people interested again. Cricket in this country was dying before this series and now it is really challenging football in column inches and interest.

McGrath was fit for one match and effectively won that for Aus!

Him being stupid enough to step on a cricket ball whilst playing football pre-second test was the turning point of the Ashes.

IMO, with him in the Aus side, Eng was never going to score enough runs to win a test match.

 

[Scaly piscine]

McGrath was fit for one match and effectively won that for Aus!

Him being stupid enough to step on a cricket ball whilst playing football pre-second test was the turning point of the Ashes.

IMO, with him in the Aus side, Eng was never going to score enough runs to win a test match.

Like in the 3rd Test you mean where Australia were saved by the taff getting injured? Or in the 5th Test where Australia would have been significant odds against getting the 300+ in the 4th innings. Where's that picture of sour grapes...

 

[shaka]

such a big achievement in their opinion that they spent like $80,000 Australian dollars equivalence on alcohol, and which included vodka, beer, gin and tonic etc, and may have placed pressure on the effort of Boony.

 

[chris.hinton]

Answer is no we are not ! this is the best England Side that hass ever been and to beat an awesome Aussies side 2-1 and if it was not for Warne and Lee 4-1 is brilliant so stop your moaning and let us have our glory

Our do i sense the Aussies are bad losers