Aren't the Englaishmen getting carried away??

[marc71178]

Take that bigoted comment where it belongs - in a skinhead group or clan.

You stopped reading after that bit ? i am sure- it seems that a lotta people here stop reading after they have been confronted with the truth. Lets recap for a moment- i said Flintoff is at his physical peak and his overall performance is nothing hoo-haa. I am sure 26-27 is considered the physical peak for a fast bowler and a 30+ average is nothing hoo-haa.
So please come again.

Except that average isn't the average of how he's is currently bowling (ie around the 25 mark)

 

[Swervy]

Take that bigoted comment where it belongs - in a skinhead group or clan.

You stopped reading after that bit ? i am sure- it seems that a lotta people here stop reading after they have been confronted with the truth. Lets recap for a moment- i said Flintoff is at his physical peak and his overall performance is nothing hoo-haa. I am sure 26-27 is considered the physical peak for a fast bowler and a 30+ average is nothing hoo-haa.
So please come again.

actually these days it is thought that a fast bowlers peak is about the ages 28 to around 31..and it is certainly the case that Flintoff is much fitter and stronger as a player now than he was even 3 years ago.

And forget the overall average CC...there is a very strong arguement for Flintoff being the second best fast bowler in the world at the moment..but you have to watch him play to appreciate that

 

[Swervy]

With all respect....I find it funny that English fans are claiming this is the "best English side that's ever been"

Sure they have a strong pace attack, great team spirit and self belief but surely it's plainly obvious they're still lacking in a number of departments.

I'm not meaning to put them down because they're likely to be a force in the near future but lose, say, Freddie and the side looks pretty stock standard.

take the best player out of any team and you obviously weaken the team..pretty obvious really isnt it. Of course there are a few weak points, but this is still a developing side. It took a while for Australia to build a truely rock solid team as well.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Take that bigoted comment where it belongs - in a skinhead group or clan.

You stopped reading after that bit ? i am sure- it seems that a lotta people here stop reading after they have been confronted with the truth. Lets recap for a moment- i said Flintoff is at his physical peak and his overall performance is nothing hoo-haa. I am sure 26-27 is considered the physical peak for a fast bowler and a 30+ average is nothing hoo-haa.
So please come again.

he still is overall pretty ordinary.

I understand that you haven't seen the series, but to come out with the above statement is pretty naive. Most (aside from the Kallis fans really) agree that he is the best all-rounder in the world, and would make it in a world 11 as a world class bowling all-rounder (batting ones are ten a penny). What, do you want him to have an average to rival McGrath and Ponting before you ackowledge him? Not going to happen.

I am not bigoted or a skinhead, in fact my politics couldn't be further from the BNP if I tried. My comment was a throw-away line, and it does seem to me that you have a strong dislike for all things English, an inherent abhorence, and being from Indian extraction one might assume this has something to do with our history as a coloniser.

I think we've both made generalisations.

 

[C_C]

And forget the overall average CC...there is a very strong arguement for Flintoff being the second best fast bowler in the world at the moment..but you have to watch him play to appreciate that

I have watched Flintoff in the first two Ashes test already and as per yer 'strong indication', what BS!
Flintoff is definately not better than Vaas as a pacer and i suppose he is second best after Vaas coz McGrath is hobbling, Dizzy is almost done, Pollock is almost done,Akhtar is inactive and after that there is practically nobody.
I think in a situation like this, even Aaqib Javed would've been #2 bowler in the world.

I am not bigoted or a skinhead, in fact my politics couldn't be further from the BNP if I tried. My comment was a throw-away line, and it does seem to me that you have a strong dislike for all things English, an inherent abhorence, and being from Indian extraction one might assume this has something to do with our history as a coloniser.

Your assumption, without knowing anything about me personally is exposing your racist thinking on this topic. You dont even know if i am half english or not. You'd notice that i havnt overhyped India either - not once. Your inherent dislike comment is bogus because i have criticised ALL teams in the past before. I however get the impression that a lotta english fans here might be fit to look at tabloid journalism for a job.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Utter BS that English pitches are less helpful to English bowlers than Indian pitches are to Indian bowlers.
Hoggard, Harmison etc. are pretty much home cooked dough so far.
They have won their sixth or seventh series in a row, outta which 1 was Bangladesh,2 were west indies and 1 was zimbabwe- which is feeding on the minnows.
Not to mention, England won against Australia minus McGrath - he played 3 matches and in two of them, he was on one leg. I remember the very same English fans deriding the drawn series IND achieved in AUS on the same factors.

Everything you say there is completely wrong.

1. Look at the differences between Kumble and Harbhajan's home and away records.

2. Harmison's first 5-wicket haul came in Sri Lanka, and are you forgetting 7-12 in the West Indies? As well as 6-63?

3. England's six series wins came against WI, NZ, WI, SA, Bangladesh, and Australia - none of those are part of Zimbabwe. We last played them in 2001.

4. McGrath himself described himself as "fully fit" before the last Test.

5. I can't speak for others, but I never derided India's draw in Australia.

Finally, and conclusively, Flintoff's batting average from his last 20 Tests is 46.45, while his bowling average is 25.86. If that's not world-class, I don't know what is.

EDIT: Flintoff averages 50 with the bat in his last 40 ODIs, and 21 with the ball. That's even better.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Your assumption, without knowing anything about me personally is exposing your racist thinking on this topic. You dont even know if i am half english or not. You'd notice that i havnt overhyped India either - not once. Your inherent dislike comment is bogus because i have criticised ALL teams in the past before. I however get the impression that a lotta english fans here might be fit to look at tabloid journalism for a job.

I've just told you about my politics, you sir are a troll.

 

[C_C]

1. Look at the differences between Kumble and Harbhajan's home and away records.

Yeah i am sure if Indian pitches are a LOT helpful for spinners, Indian pacers definately arnt getting compromised!

2. Harmison's first 5-wicket haul came in Sri Lanka, and are you forgetting 7-12 in the West Indies? As well as 6-63?

And ? Kumble has 5-wicket hauls and excellent innings overseas as well..... what is harmison's average overseas ? rather mediocre.

3. England's six series wins came against WI, NZ, WI, SA, Bangladesh, and Australia - none of those are part of Zimbabwe. We last played them in 2001.

Okay so instead of more than half the matches against minnows, its half the matches against minnows.

4. McGrath himself described himself as "fully fit" before the last Test.

yeah i am sure you believe him everytime he says that as well. I suppose thats why you argued in that Ian Botham thread that Botham didnt get found out because he played a lotta matches in the latter part of his career not fully fit.

Finally, and conclusively, Flintoff's batting average from his last 20 Tests is 46.45, while his bowling average is 25.86. If that's not world-class, I don't know what is.

Worldclass would be:

1. Doing it for a significantly longer period of time
2. Doing it minus the minnows.

 

[C_C]

I've just told you about my politics, you sir are a troll.

If that is your political tilt, then you SHOULDNT be making judgement about my posts ( without actually seeing the logic behind it or debating it) simply because of my ethnicity and your perception of what i think of history.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

If that is your political tilt, then you SHOULDNT be making judgement about my posts ( without actually seeing the logic behind it or debating it) simply because of my ethnicity and your perception of what i think of history.

You may be correct. Equally though, you shouldn't have been labelling me racist after reading my earlier post.

 

[Swervy]

I have watched Flintoff in the first two Ashes test already and as per yer 'strong indication', what BS!
Flintoff is definately not better than Vaas as a pacer and i suppose he is second best after Vaas coz McGrath is hobbling, Dizzy is almost done, Pollock is almost done,Akhtar is inactive and after that there is practically nobody.
I think in a situation like this, even Aaqib Javed would've been #2 bowler in the world.



.

Three more to watch then....have to say that being able to watch 2 tests in full in such a short space of time is pretty remarkable, even for such a superhro like you CC

The way Flintoff has bowled in the last year compared to how Vaas bowls...well no comparison, Vaas is nowhere near, way way too inconsistant to be the number one bowler as you suggest

 

[greg]

I have watched Flintoff in the first two Ashes test already and as per yer 'strong indication', what BS!
Flintoff is definately not better than Vaas as a pacer and i suppose he is second best after Vaas coz McGrath is hobbling, Dizzy is almost done, Pollock is almost done,Akhtar is inactive and after that there is practically nobody.
I think in a situation like this, even Aaqib Javed would've been #2 bowler in the world.

Did you see his over to Langer and Ponting? Did you think it showed a bit of potential?

I bet you can't wait, licking your lips in anticipation even, to watch the Old Trafford and Oval tests in particular to see that one over potential demonstrated to be just the tip of the iceberg. Watch out for some truly memorable spells of fast bowling. I particularly recommend his demolition of Hayden in the second and Katich in the first innings (and second as a direct consequence) at Old Trafford, and obviously you should fast forward to the fourth morning at the Oval. Enjoy!

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Did you see his over to Langer and Ponting? Did you think it showed a bit of potential?

I bet you can't wait, licking your lips in anticipation even, to watch the Old Trafford and Oval tests in particular to see that one over potential demonstrated to be just the tip of the iceberg. Watch out for some truly memorable spells of fast bowling. I particularly recommend his demolition of Hayden in the second and Katich in the first innings (and second as a direct consequence) at Old Trafford, and obviously you should fast forward to the fourth morning at the Oval. Enjoy!

Yes, but that's only because he's at his peak fitness-wise. It has nothing to do with cricketing skill.

 

[C_C]

Three more to watch then....have to say that being able to watch 2 tests in full in such a short space of time is pretty remarkable, even for such a superhro like you CC

The way Flintoff has bowled in the last year compared to how Vaas bowls...well no comparison, Vaas is nowhere near, way way too inconsistant to be the number one bowler as you suggest

Pity you cannot do simple math.
I said i am a week or two behind schedule.......i am sure that would be contrived to mean that i just recently downloaded the matches.

 

[Zinzan]

#2 in the world or maybe #3. But gap between #2, #3, #4 and #5 isnt very much in my mind.

Thats funny....NZ are number 5 at the moment and you've rubbished them in previous posts. Stop contradicting yourself !!

 

[C_C]

You may be correct. Equally though, you shouldn't have been labelling me racist after reading my earlier post.

I actually didnt say you are a racist- atleast i didnt intend to - i was pointing out that drawing a conclusion about my tilt on a matter because of my race is racist in nature.

 

[C_C]

Thats funny....NZ are number 5 at the moment and you've rubbished them in previous posts. Stop contradicting yourself !!

I dont go by ICC test rankings,incase you didnt notice.

 

[greg]

Thats funny....NZ are number 5 at the moment and you've rubbished them in previous posts. Stop contradicting yourself !!

Don't be silly. You should be aware that the top five are Australia, England, India, South Africa and Sri Lanka.

 

[C_C]

The way Flintoff has bowled in the last year compared to how Vaas bowls...well no comparison, Vaas is nowhere near, way way too inconsistant to be the number one bowler as you suggest

Yet Vaas has somehow managed to average less than Flintoff with the ball for almost twice as many matches.
And somehow Flintoff, who has been bashing a lotta minnows and performing well with the ball for around two years is a model of consistency.

 

[Zinzan]

SInce when is NZ pretty close to India in Test cricket ?
.

A better question is when did India last beat NZ in a test match, let alone a test series????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!