"Anyone but Little England"

[steds]

He suggested Barney Rubble was racist somewhere.

 

[Swervy]

He suggested Barney Rubble was racist somewhere.

having seen the offending post, well..I am shocked that Richard could have dreamt up such a thing, quite bizarre!!!! ...anyway back to business....

Londoners are crap!!!!!!

 

[BoyBrumby]

Londoners are crap!!!!!!

Quite agree. Cantabrigians rule!

 

[C_C]

Two places just 22 miles apart are Calais and Dover - where Louis Bleriot started and ended his historic flight a century ago (Cap Gris-nez and St Margarets at Cliffe to be precise). The cultural differences between the two places are every bit as wide as between the cities you keep quoting (London and Madrid).

Now get a map and work it out for yourself.

Righto- thats what i said all along - distance is no factor to cultural diversity.

 

[C_C]

No, we don't. That was the point I was making. People from north Wales speak Welsh & people from rural southern Ireland speak Irish Gaelic. They probably speak English too, but then so do people from Quebec or Louisianna. & The fact that their first tongue isn't English also informs the way they speak English too.

Irish Gaelic is almost dead in Northern Ireland...my ex did an extensive paper on that.
Look- what i am saying is in the entire isles, the BASE culture is the same...everything else is just little variations...just like dialects. Its not a different culture in wales or in england, its the same ol culture with small differences. Like dialects in languages. Its not a different culture ( like different languages).
What you describe ( and rememebr- i've seen much of the Isles myself) is found in every single culture - little itty bitty differences...its not a distinct difference as you find in different cultures.

You have the same cuisine. The same music ( doesnt matter if its recorded in London or Glasgow- the whole country listens to it). My essential point is, in the west, the scenario is pretty homogenous all over. You dont find distinct differences like you do in the east.

 

[steds]

Irish Gaelic is almost dead in Northern Ireland...my ex did an extensive paper on that.

That's probably why he said rural southern Ireland.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Irish Gaelic is almost dead in Northern Ireland...my ex did an extensive paper on that.
Look- what i am saying is in the entire isles, the BASE culture is the same...everything else is just little variations...just like dialects. Its not a different culture in wales or in england, its the same ol culture with small differences. Like dialects in languages. Its not a different culture ( like different languages).
What you describe ( and rememebr- i've seen much of the Isles myself) is found in every single culture - little itty bitty differences...its not a distinct difference as you find in different cultures.

You have the same cuisine. The same music ( doesnt matter if its recorded in London or Glasgow- the whole country listens to it). My essential point is, in the west, the scenario is pretty homogenous all over. You dont find distinct differences like you do in the east.

Irish Gaelic may be entirely dead in Northern Ireland; the majority population are Ulster Scots who define themselves as British, not Irish. Hence my using "rural southern Ireland".

Welsh & Gaelic are not dialetics of English either; they're from an entirely different linguistic strain. What you dismiss as "little itty bitty differences" are actually nothing of the sort. People from Eire have a different religion, a different language, different customs & different modes of behaviour from people in London. They may not seem important to you, but, trust me, they're very important to the Irish.

 

[C_C]

Welsh & Gaelic are not dialetics of English either; they're from an entirely different linguistic strain. What you dismiss as "little itty bitty differences" are actually nothing of the sort. People from Eire have a different religion, a different language, different customs & different modes of behaviour from people in London. They may not seem important to you, but, trust me, they're very important to the Irish.

Yes i know that. But my entire point was the British Isles ( which doesnt include Republic of Ireland-its a seperate nation) isnt a very diverse nation.....
Eire doesnt come into it...or else we would be comparing entire Europe with India or China..in which case, yeah, Europe and mediterranean is as diverse as India or China.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yes i know that. But my entire point was the British Isles ( which doesnt include Republic of Ireland-its a seperate nation) isnt a very diverse nation.....
Eire doesnt come into it...or else we would be comparing entire Europe with India or China..in which case, yeah, Europe and mediterranean is as diverse as India or China.

The British Isles does include Eire; the UK does not.

 

[C_C]

The British Isles does include Eire; the UK does not.

Okay well in that case, my mistake.
It was initially brought up by Richard how the UK was oh-so-diverse so i had to give him a bit of a reality check.
Out here, the British Isles refers to the UK ( and i noticed that it does in most areas except for in UK)...many Irish take offence as to being referred as 'you are British'....hence when i use the term 'British', i use it for United Kingdom.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Okay well in that case, my mistake.
It was initially brought up by Richard how the UK was oh-so-diverse so i had to give him a bit of a reality check.
Out here, the British Isles refers to the UK ( and i noticed that it does in most areas except for in UK)...many Irish take offence as to being referred as 'you are British'....hence when i use the term 'British', i use it for United Kingdom.

I don't doubt for a second they would. The British Isles is merely a geographical term, not a political one. I suspect almost as many Welsh & Scots would object to being called "British" too, despite holding citizenship of The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland (to give it its full & pedantic title).

You said earlier "if you think western culture isnt insular or is diverse, you are sadly mistaken." this is what I objected too. Ireland (which is further west than ourselves, so certainly part of "western culture") diverges from us in many important cultural ways.

 

[C_C]

You said earlier "if you think western culture isnt insular or is diverse, you are sadly mistaken." this is what I objected too. Ireland (which is further west than ourselves, so certainly part of "western culture") diverges from us in many important cultural ways.

Perhaps. But the western culture i've seen ( Britain, US, Canada) is pretty much the same....not very diverse as the mediterranean culture.
I was addressing the fact that in the west there is so much cultural constraints ( dress code at work, dress code for parties, dress code for casinos, largely set behaviour patterns just to name a few) that in the west other cultures dont get a chance to thrive. They get absorbed in the mainstream, thus the areas are largely the same culturally.
Even then there isnt as much cultural difference between France and England(i've been to both) as there is between Tamil Nadu and West Bengal or Canton and Xinkiang(sp?).
The western cultural sphere is pretty mixed bag (where it incorporates elements of other culture) but it is so homogenous around a nation that it is pretty much the same ol same ol.
I lived in Manchester for a while and went to London quite often ( along with Glasgow)... it merely felt 'bigger' in London..thats about it. Same music, food, art, literature, etc. from the same 'lines' with only more options. But options dont mean variety. 30 kinds of chocolate are still chocolates!
I lived in Ontario for 3 years and have been in BC for almost four..there is hardly ANY cutural difference between the two places.

When you go from one cultural sphere to another, you experience different music, behaviour, arts, literature, value system, etc. etc.
Similar to going to Italy from Britain.
Western nations simply lack that quality because the west assimilates. It doesnt co-exist.
Thats why you see 3rd or 4th generation immigrants in the west being practically mainstream western in their perspectives and culture instead of retaining their culture like you see in immigrant families in India.
The distinctiveness of a culture doesnt survive.
It is on a journey to diversity but the journey has only begun.Give it a few hundred years and then maybe...maybe the west can capture the diversity you find in India or China. You gotto realise that the west has been 'diversifying' for merely 50 years at best...places like India and China have been diverse for thousands of years....as such, as long as the cultural aspect of those two nations exist, the current cultural scheme in the west isnt diverse at all.
If i were to put sports as an analogy ( and i think many here will grasp that better), the differences in the west culturally (within one nation) is the difference between test cricket and one day cricket. It is still cricket - just slight modifications here and there. Its not cricket and beach volleyball.

 

[luckyeddie]

Okay well in that case, my mistake.
It was initially brought up by Richard how the UK was oh-so-diverse so i had to give him a bit of a reality check.
Out here, the British Isles refers to the UK ( and i noticed that it does in most areas except for in UK)...many Irish take offence as to being referred as 'you are British'....hence when i use the term 'British', i use it for United Kingdom.

You gave no-one a 'reality check' at all.

If you EVER come to Britain, I suggest you stop just looking at the pavements. I tried to give you some kind of flavour of the diversity of the food on offer (I notice that you ignored that post, presumably because it didn't fit into your preconceived ideas) - a few other things you ought to consider eating are:

1. Haggis
2. Tripe
3. Drisheen
4. Stargazy Pie
5. Corned Beef (not tinned)
6. Laver Bread
7. Bakewell Pudding
8. Pikelets
9. Partan Pie
10. Flummery
11. Kedgeree (you might have heard of that one)
12. Elvers
13. Sage Derby Cheese
14. Crabby Patties
15. Lardy Cake
16. Solon Goose
17. Northumberland Twists

It's unlikely that you will ever find any restaurant serving any of these - or perhaps one or two in any one area of the British Isles.

 

[Barney Rubble]

having seen the offending post, well..I am shocked that Richard could have dreamt up such a thing, quite bizarre!!!! ...anyway back to business....

Londoners are crap!!!!!!

Twasn't a post, twas my feature article about England's spinners. Not that that makes it any more or less ridiculous. He's only banned for seven days, though, so he'll be back before long.

 

[luckyeddie]

Righto- thats what i said all along - distance is no factor to cultural diversity.

No, you totally missed the point.

It's the fact that you can't walk from one to the other because there's a stretch of water 20 miles wide and 500 feet deep between the two.

 

[C_C]

If you EVER come to Britain, I suggest you stop just looking at the pavements. I tried to give you some kind of flavour of the diversity of the food on offer (I notice that you ignored that post, presumably because it didn't fit into your preconceived ideas) - a few other things you ought to consider eating are:

A few dishes here and there, a few different songs here and there and a few different inflections a cultural difference doesnt make.
You are overstating it massively, for cultural diversity is having DIFFERENT CULTURES.
How many scots or welsh eat haggis and wear their kilts around ?
What is the nature of gaelic literature, music, arts, customs etc ?
Cultural difference, as i have said a million times on this thread, is having seperate cultures co-existing. If entire europe formed a nation today, you would have cultural diversity, where you have French culture, British culture, German culture, Italian culture, etc.

What you are desribing ( and i am aware of them) is something you notice in EVERY culture....those are akin to dialects of the same language rather than being different languages ( or cultures).

 

[C_C]

No, you totally missed the point.

It's the fact that you can't walk from one to the other because there's a stretch of water 20 miles wide and 500 feet deep between the two.

I know- i am not debating cause - i am talking about effect. Britain being isolated is a factor but its the history of western culture and politics that is a much bigger reason - for you dont notice much cultural diversity in Italy or France either and they are pretty easy to walk into.

 

[superkingdave]

CC Where in Manchester did you live?

btw there's not really a dress code in a lot of workplaces these days

 

[steds]

CC Where in Manchester did you live?

Camden, by the sounds of things.

 

[luckyeddie]

What you are desribing ( and i am aware of them) is something you notice in EVERY culture....those are akin to dialects of the same language rather than being different languages ( or cultures).

Nope.

The reason I highlighted everything I did is for a reason - the circumstances that made each of those separate and diverse communities so unique - their entire reasons for existing.

Why societies develop in the ways that they do is dependent upon a number of factors, but usually geographical or environmental in nature. You don't 'choose' a culture - it just happens. Those individual environments themselves still exist to a lesser or greater extent, but they are becoming more and more diluted over time.

To me, as an inhabitant of these islands, the cultural differences between Orkney, Derbyshire, Cornwall and Norfolk are obvious - to you, not so.

I'm leaving it at that because this is, as usual, a complete and utter waste of time.