"Anyone but Little England"

[luckyeddie]

Have you travelled the world ? If not, how on earth would YOU know whats the picture ?
You'd find that most people who've travelled extensively hold similar viewpoints.

You're full of generalisations which are little more than opinion dressed up as fact.

 

[C_C]

You're full of generalisations which are little more than opinion dressed up as fact.

So it is a generalisation i guess to say that the cuisine, literature, music, etc. in Manchester is pretty much exactly the same as in London.
Right-O.
Tell me what generalisation i've made.

 

[C_C]

Well in all i've only lived really in nottingham, i mean i was in Hong Kong for a while but i was like 3

You yourself should know that one person's view doesn't always tell the whole picture, people have biases and different interpretations.

Yes. People's views are biassed...however, most of the stuff i am talking here ( related to culture) are facts.

 

[Jamee999]

So it is a generalisation i guess to say that the cuisine, literature, music, etc. in Manchester is pretty much exactly the same as in London.
Right-O.
Tell me what generalisation i've made.

The generalisation that the cuisine, literature, music, etc. in Manchester is pretty much exactly the same as in London.

 

[C_C]

The generalisation that the cuisine, literature, music, etc. in Manchester is pretty much exactly the same as in London.

It isnt ? Tell me half a dozen popular food dishes you find in Manchester that you dont find in London.
Does Manchester have a different literary and music style than London ?

 

[steds]

It isnt ? Tell me half a dozen popular food dishes you find in Manchester that you dont find in London.

Hotpot, for one.

 

[luckyeddie]

So it is a generalisation i guess to say that the cuisine, literature, music, etc. in Manchester is pretty much exactly the same as in London.
Right-O.
Tell me what generalisation i've made.

Don't be a know-it-all. For a start, cuisine in many parts of the UK is totally different - there are many dishes that are traditional in one part of the country but unheard-of elsewhere.

Cuisine
Black pudding - essentially from the North and the Midlands, but each area has its own recipes.
White Pudding - Scotland and Ireland only
Cornish Pasty - Essex
Yorkshire Pudding - Lancashire
Lancashire Hotpot - The Isle of Wight
Jellied Eels - Manchester only.
Parkin - Edinburgh and other parts of South Wales
Pease Pudding - everywhere except the village of Eastry
Haggis - Imported from the stupid part of Canada
The only food famous the world over that originated from England is Chicken Tikka Masala.

Literature
It's well-known that people from Liverpool are only taught to read the words 'Unemployment' and 'Benefit'.
Everyone else just reads cigarette advertisements and menus in Chinese restaurants before ordering 20 No 6.

Music
Unfortunately, I've heard an instrument called 'The Bagpipes'. This monstrosity has a number of regional variations. A few useful points about bagpipes are as follows:
The Irish version is pumped by the use of bellows.
The English version is played as far away as possible.
The Scottish version is blown.
All of them suck.
The bagpipe is made from the shed skin of the haggis with its exoskeleton still attached.
The name 'Bagpipe' is derived from the noise made by a cat being strangled (a condensation of the words 'Bagpuss' and 'Windpipe')

 

[BoyBrumby]

Does Manchester have a different literary and music style than London ?

Actually very much so, but I suspect you'd dismiss the differences as "shades of grey". Manchester has produced far more bands of note than London per capita. It may be something to do with the weather, but a lot of Mancunian bands (Smiths, Joy Division, The Fall, The Stone Roses, Elbow) have a depth that v few London bands can muster.

Great bands have come from London & its surrounds (The Small Faces, The Who, The Jam), but they have more of a theatricality than their provincial confreres.

 

[Swervy]

The generalisation that the cuisine, literature, music, etc. in Manchester is pretty much exactly the same as in London.

I went to London the other week, and was in Manchester on Friday, and I can tell you that walking down the streets of both you see business people walking around in suits, you see the same shops, you see the same chain of pubs, you hear the same music blasting from the jukebox, you see the same beers, you hear people talking about the same TV programmes..as time goes on, the traditional character of the provincial towns and cities in Britain are being watered down.

I think it is a fact that mainstream culture is pretty much the same pretty much where ever you go in Britain....and unfortunately in towns with large Asian communities, the difference in culture given to us by Asians is largely frowned upon by large sections of the 'native' population.

maybe apart from small pockets of some cities in UK , there simply isnt any sort of multiculturalism going whatsoever(In fact london is the only city in UK i have been to where this isnt the case) . You have your Asians areas, you have your White areas and you have your black areas etc, with not too much interaction going on between any of them...despite what your local council might be saying to the press or whatever

 

[C_C]

Actually very much so, but I suspect you'd dismiss the differences as "shades of grey". Manchester has produced far more bands of note than London per capita. It may be something to do with the weather, but a lot of Mancunian bands (Smiths, Joy Division, The Fall, The Stone Roses, Elbow) have a depth that v few London bands can muster.

Great bands have come from London & its surrounds (The Small Faces, The Who, The Jam), but they have more of a theatricality than their provincial confreres.

I am not disparaging Manchester...or London for that matter.
What i am saying is that there isnt much of a cultural difference in London and Manchester.
People dress the same...eat largely the same stuff, listen to same genres of music, read same styles of literature, have same etiquettes and mannerisms.
Now if you look at London and Madrid, lot of those things are different.
That is what i mean by diversity - where you have different regions doing their things largely differently and IMO that is a very enjoyable experience.
In England/Canada/US there is the 'mainstream culture' that encompasses 80% of the nation ( the only exception is Quebec and Louisiana from my experience)...whereas you dont find that same mainstream idea in places like India or China and as a result, going to a different part of the country is like going to a differen country alltogethr.

 

[Swervy]

Actually very much so, but I suspect you'd dismiss the differences as "shades of grey". Manchester has produced far more bands of note than London per capita. It may be something to do with the weather, but a lot of Mancunian bands (Smiths, Joy Division, The Fall, The Stone Roses, Elbow) have a depth that v few London bands can muster.

Great bands have come from London & its surrounds (The Small Faces, The Who, The Jam), but they have more of a theatricality than their provincial confreres.

which is true up to a point, however I think CC might be right in dismissing those differences as shade of grey in the whole scheme of things.

Musically in fact I dont think you can tell the difference between a London band and a Manchester band just like that, given that pretty much most band are influenced directly or indirectly by pretty much the same things...musically. Now lyically, you do have a point, however again a town like Manchester is bond to trow up difference experiences for its inhabitants than a city 4 or 5 times its size like London

 

[BoyBrumby]

I am not disparaging Manchester...or London for that matter.
What i am saying is that there isnt much of a cultural difference in London and Manchester.
People dress the same...eat largely the same stuff, listen to same genres of music, read same styles of literature, have same etiquettes and mannerisms.
Now if you look at London and Madrid, lot of those things are different.
That is what i mean by diversity - where you have different regions doing their things largely differently and IMO that is a very enjoyable experience.
In England/Canada/US there is the 'mainstream culture' that encompasses 80% of the nation ( the only exception is Quebec and Louisiana from my experience)...whereas you dont find that same mainstream idea in places like India or China and as a result, going to a different part of the country is like going to a differen country alltogethr.

Go to north Wales or rural Ireland. English isn't the only language spoken in the British Isles. There are probably more similarities between London & Madrid.

Obviously popular culture is diffused by the mass media across the country, but you're enitirely wrong to say people from Manchester & London have the same etiquettes & mannerisms. If another English person were to hear my accent they would immediately know I'm not from the north of the country.

 

[Swervy]

Go to north Wales or rural Ireland. English isn't the only language spoken in the British Isles. There are probably more similarities between London & Madrid.

Obviously popular culture is diffused by the mass media across the country, but you're enitirely wrong to say people from Manchester & London have the same etiquettes & mannerisms. If another English person were to hear my accent they would immediately know I'm not from the north of the country.

yeah..you southern shandy drinker

 

[C_C]

Go to north Wales or rural Ireland. English isn't the only language spoken in the British Isles. There are probably more similarities between London & Madrid.

Obviously popular culture is diffused by the mass media across the country, but you're enitirely wrong to say people from Manchester & London have the same etiquettes & mannerisms. If another English person were to hear my accent they would immediately know I'm not from the north of the country.

Honestly, the differences are rather small and shades of the same stuff ( you still speak the same language, have the same idea on greeting people and politeness, etc).
Would you say that there is as much difference culturally between London and Manchester as there is between London and Vienna ?
or as much cultural difference between England and Wales as there is between England and Poland ?
If you did, i would say you are wrong, for the similarities are so huge and differences so small, its like having different dialects of the same culture ( just like language) rather than having a different culture.

And all i said is, places like India or China have a diversity that rivals entire Europe and the mediterranean in terms of cultural difference...not just dialects of the same culture.
With that in mind, i said that the west has a long long way to go before it becomes culturally diverse...and now i am bigoted, biassed, disparaging and what not....for the mere observation of a fact!

 

[steds]

If another English person were to hear my accent they would immediately know I'm not from the north of the country.

We'd know even before you opened your mouth from that arrogant lord of the manor swagger and Harlequins shirt underneath a tweed jacket.

 

[BoyBrumby]

which is true up to a point, however I think CC might be right in dismissing those differences as shade of grey in the whole scheme of things.

Musically in fact I dont think you can tell the difference between a London band and a Manchester band just like that, given that pretty much most band are influenced directly or indirectly by pretty much the same things...musically. Now lyically, you do have a point, however again a town like Manchester is bond to trow up difference experiences for its inhabitants than a city 4 or 5 times its size like London

The point I was making (or attempting to) is that whilst the major conurbations of the UK unquestionably have similarities, they were much aren't the deserts of homogeneity he paints them as. There is, to my mind at least, a "Manchester" sound. Bands from elsewhere may ape it (stand up Kasabian), but then one also has British people playing what would be considered "Indian" music too.

Even if one were to take something as trivial as our two great (ha!) soaps, I think there's a distinct difference in tone between Eastenders (London) & Coronation Street (Manchester).

 

[steds]

Would you say that there is as much difference culturally between London and Manchester as there is between London and Vienna ?

Of course there isn't. There's a tiny distance between London and Manchester and a much larger one between London and Vienna. Not to mention a big mass of water.
What about Vienna and Innsbruck? Do you expect them to be speaking different languages and eating different foods?

 

[luckyeddie]

Honestly, the differences are rather small and shades of the same stuff ( you still speak the same language, have the same idea on greeting people and politeness, etc).
Would you say that there is as much difference culturally between London and Manchester as there is between London and Vienna ?
or as much cultural difference between England and Wales as there is between England and Poland ?
If you did, i would say you are wrong, for the similarities are so huge and differences so small, its like having different dialects of the same culture ( just like language) rather than having a different culture.

And all i said is, places like India or China have a diversity that rivals entire Europe and the mediterranean in terms of cultural difference...not just dialects of the same culture.
With that in mind, i said that the west has a long long way to go before it becomes culturally diverse...and now i am bigoted, biassed, disparaging and what not....for the mere observation of a fact!

Two places just 22 miles apart are Calais and Dover - where Louis Bleriot started and ended his historic flight a century ago (Cap Gris-nez and St Margarets at Cliffe to be precise). The cultural differences between the two places are every bit as wide as between the cities you keep quoting (London and Madrid).

Now get a map and work it out for yourself.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Honestly, the differences are rather small and shades of the same stuff ( you still speak the same language, have the same idea on greeting people and politeness, etc).Would you say that there is as much difference culturally between London and Manchester as there is between London and Vienna ?
or as much cultural difference between England and Wales as there is between England and Poland ?
If you did, i would say you are wrong, for the similarities are so huge and differences so small, its like having different dialects of the same culture ( just like language) rather than having a different culture.

And all i said is, places like India or China have a diversity that rivals entire Europe and the mediterranean in terms of cultural difference...not just dialects of the same culture.
With that in mind, i said that the west has a long long way to go before it becomes culturally diverse...and now i am bigoted, biassed, disparaging and what not....for the mere observation of a fact!

No, we don't. That was the point I was making. People from north Wales speak Welsh & people from rural southern Ireland speak Irish Gaelic. They probably speak English too, but then so do people from Quebec or Louisianna. & The fact that their first tongue isn't English also informs the way they speak English too.

 

[Swervy]

erm..slightly off topic...

i was just going through this thread just to see how this discussion has evolved, and I noticed it was Richard who actually said something which made me pipe up about it...but I notice richard has been banned...when did that one happen????