andrew flintoff was a bit **** really

[TheJediBrah]

I'd be offended if it wasn't true

 

[Flem274*]

the anderson thread is legit criticism ramped to 11. world class in his time with some obvious flaws and advantages, like a bowling sehwag or something, which is fine tbh. it does mildly annoy me his rep is enhanced because he plays a million tests in his comfort zone when he's modern tim southee with 1000 games (witness the triggering this will cause) but he's also genuinely impressed me in the 2011 ashes and the uae. he's delivered more for england than starc has for aus, and australians get very insecure when starc is critiqued by a non aussie. sadly starc is delivering now which is far less fun.

this thread is just me having a lend at adders and gimh. i do consider cairns better but freddy is a gun and also the vastly superior human.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The best type of "trolling" (silly term to use) is when it's based on truth

If it was just "Tendulkar wasn't a good international batsman because x and y" it would be **** because it's pure garbage

"Anderson/Flintoff is overrated" works because it's true

 

[stephen]

I'm pretty sure nobody is defending Starc at test level. He's great at mopping up the tail but lacked penetration up front that one would expect from a left armer with his pace.

 

[Adders]

The best type of "trolling" (silly term to use) is when it's based on truth

If it was just "Tendulkar wasn't a good international batsman because x and y" it would be **** because it's pure garbage

"Anderson/Flintoff is overrated" works because it's true

Overrated by who though? And I'm not talking about crap pundits who may have said Jimmy is the best in the world while Dale Steyn was still getting around in all his glory.......you even said earlier "English Fans"

Since I'm the one who always gets into these **** fights over Anderson, where exactly do you envisage I rate him in the grand scheme of things?? He is not overrated on CW by any stretch......he is criminally underrated here.

 

[mr_mister]

I hear Anderson called England's greatest ever bowler a lot by people in the media - no doubt based on the huge amount of wickets he took

 

[Line and Length]

Well said Adders! I concur.

 

[mr_mister]

oh and re Starc I know half the aussies on this site barely rate him with a red ball.

We all want Patto-Cummins-Hazelwood-Lyon as the 4 man attack

 

[Adders]

I hear Anderson called England's greatest ever bowler a lot by people in the media - no doubt based on the huge amount of wickets he took

I don't disagree that there has been some over rating in the English media and from some ex players............are we taking that as the general consensus now? And Brah specifically said English fans here.

I rate Jimmy as an English ATG as he's in the conversation for an English all time 11......whether he makes it is very debatable but he's in the conversation. As for the ROW, he is clearly a tier below ATG.......I believe we call that All Time Very Good now? No one thinks he's up there with the McGraths, Marshall's, Ambroses etc. he is a level down...........which for the record is still very ****ing good.

 

[mr_mister]

would you honestly have a spot for him in England's ATG XI?

Bedser, Trueman, Larwood, Tyson and Barnes all get the nod ahead of him right? Then you have to consider Botham probably plays too.

 

[honestbharani]

I simply call the level below ATG as "great" FTR...

 

[ImpatientLime]

would you honestly have a spot for him in England's ATG XI?

Bedser, Trueman, Larwood, Tyson and Barnes all get the nod ahead of him right? Then you have to consider Botham probably plays too.

he's ahead of bedser and larwood. bedser is a bigger home towner than anderson and larwood's career is centred on you know what which was immediately outlawed.

tyson? 17 tests was few even for his era but his stats are eye watering. depends on what you like i guess. a bit like deciding who is greater our of george headley and shiv chanderpaul.

barnes and trueman are certainly ahead of him. trueman is cleary number one and barnes clear number two for england.

botham? again i think anderson is ahead here. in an england all time xi, if you're picking botham you're asking a superior bat such as compton, may, pietersen, barrington or hammond to sit out which doesn't sit comfortably with me.

 

[trundler]

I've been thinking about where Anderson is in relation to Bedser. Bedser sounds like more of a condition-reliant bowler at his pace but then there's the fact that he got Bradman out most often. Got most of his wickets at home as well. Still very different bowling styles though.

Larwood and Tyson represent an old dilemma. Barry Richards vs Graeme Smith, Headley vs Chanders as said above and so on. Things get murkier still when you include guys like Lohmann.

 

[honestbharani]

I have no problem stating Headley > Chanderpaul really.

 

[trundler]

Who would you give the new ball out of Barnes, Trueman and Jimmy? All 3 great swing bowlers and massive sooks too.

 

[Flem274*]

if we're resurrecting ****s from the dead to play cricket then we may as well make them injury proof too, so pick your best bowlers regardless of career length imo

 

[trundler]

Yeah but players with shorter careers don't have to face up to challenges that those with longer careers do. Is player A really better than player B because player B failed at X whereas A didn't have to do X at all? Take O'Reilly vs Warne and bowling in India.

 

[mr_mister]

Headleys record in the 30s is so special though. I just feel he did enough in that time to convince me he's the real deal and definitely better than Chanderpaul

 

[trundler]

Yeah, bad example but not my own.

In a similar vein I think Swann is in the conversion for the spinner spot too.

 

[stephen]

Hobbs
Hutton
Barrington
Hammond
Compton
Botham
Knott+
Barnes
Trueman
Laker
Verity

or

Hobbs
Hutton
Barrington
Hammond
Compton
Pieterson
Knott+
Barnes
Trueman
Laker/Verity
Anderson/Tyson

It's all conditions dependent. The first side has the best balance but suffers in the batting somewhat. The second side you could pick based on conditions (sticky/regular wicket for Laker vs Verity, home/away for Anderson vs Tyson). I'd probably look at picking the first side on roads and the second side when there's something in the wicket.