All Time Sub Cont XI

[phaniar]

for odi

1. Anwar
2. Jaysoria
3. Zaheer
4. Miandad
5. Inzi
6. Imran (C)
7. Kapil
8. Wasim
9. Bari
10. Chandrashaker
11.Waqar

 

[bagapath]

Test XI

Gavaskar
Anwar
Dravid
Tendulkar
Miandad
Sangakkara +
Imran *
Kapil
Akram
Murali
Bedi

One-day XI

Tendulkar
Jayasuriya
Miandad
De Silva
Inzamam
Sangakkara +
Imran
Kapil
Akram
Murali
Waqar

 

[Sanz]

exactly what has he done to be put in an all-time xi again?

Taken two wickets in Kolkata. Since then he is an automatic choice for the All Time XI.

3 greatest fast/medium fast bowlers from the Sub-continent are Imran, Wasim and KapilDev.

 

[Sanz]

I mean on a flat pitch against a great batting line up and against the greatest of the batsmen in their home , he took those two BIG BIG BIG wickets .How many bowlers could have done that .. HUH was even Kapil capable enough to do that or Aaqib Javed was expected to do that. I mean some times I think that some people offcourse know the little itsi bitsis of the English and can speak and write and fold the English sentences in a very good and a clever way but knowing a language doesn't mean that you are speaking the truth .
Shoaib is a true showman and If some other country is going to have him then its a fortunate thing . He is a great bowler PERIOD

What ?? Kapil Dev tool 9 wickets for 83 against West Indians @ Ahmedabad pitch in scorching heat. Akhtar wouldn't have lasted 10 overs there, and he is yet to take 9 wickets in an innings despite getting a chance to play against teams like Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

I have nothing against Shoaib, but comparing him to KapilDev ?? Common ?

 

[Sanz]

HUH How about not even chosing Kapil Dev cuz he is old and cannot play international cricket any more .

How about not choosing Akhtar for the same reasons. ?

 

[Fusion]

Taken two wickets in Kolkata. Since then he is an automatic choice for the All Time XI.

3 greatest fast/medium fast bowlers from the Sub-continent are Imran, Wasim and KapilDev.

I know you were probably saying "top 3", but surely Waqar would be added to the above list as an all-time great quickie from the sub-continent.

 

[Anil]

I know you were probably saying "top 3", but surely Waqar would be added to the above list as an all-time great quickie from the sub-continent.

any day of the week and twice on sundays....

 

[Fusion]

any day of the week and twice on sundays....

I say Pakistan should draft him into the current team. Can't be any worse!

 

[Hodgo7]

Shoaib has no heart at all. Broken down more than a second hand car. No way would he be in an ALL-TIME side (at this stage of his career). He may go on and take a bucket load of wickets but at this stage there is no way he can be included in a side.

Some people made good arguments about leaving out Kapil Dev. No need for 2 allrounders in the side. Both Kapil and Imran are special players but overall Imran offers more. With the 2 W's, Imran and Murali with another possible spinner/pace bowler you have enough bowlers to get 20 wickets in a match. You could possibly have Dev in as the 4th bowler behind the other 3 quicks with Murali bowling his chuckers....oops I mean spinners

 

[Beleg]

After 42 matches, Shoaib has taken 165 wickets at an average of 25.69 with a strike-rate of 45.39. He has destroyed multiple batting line-ups including the Australians on more then one occasion.

In his last 30 matches, the average drops down to 22.36 and the strike-rate to 39.

Kapil Dev's career strike-rate is 63.9 and his average is 29.64.

Kapil Dev's average for the comparable period (match 10 to 42) will be somewhere around 31-32. [I am not going to add the averages of all the individual matches precisely so this is just a quick mental check-up]

During the later part of his career (after match 50), his average pretty much stabilized around 29.


The lowest Kapil's average ever reached was 26.2 and it hovered around the 26 mark from the 29th to 34th match, never again going below 27 in his 131 match career.

Shoaib has amassed these figures in the days of (typically) easier batting conditions and better bats, not to mention neutral umpires. Kapil needed three overs more then Shoaib on average to get a wicket.

Dismissing Shoaib because of his tendency to get injured is idiotic. Aren't we supposed to pick a team on the actual performance of the player rather then his off-field follies and the notoriety surrounding him? It is very easy to overlook his actual quality in face of his constant injury problems but a little digging around will show that his performance (and specially strike-rate) compares with the best of his contemporaries.

Therefore, Shoaib is at least as much of a shoe-in as Kapil to the all-time great subcontinental list as long as far as pure bowling ability is concerned.

 

[FRAZ]

As a bowler if i will have to make a choice then definately it will be Shoaib and it is quite a good choice . I want a "Strike" bowler .. Not the work horses !!!

 

[FRAZ]

Dismissing Shoaib because of his tendency to get injured is idiotic. Aren't we supposed to pick a team on the actual performance of the player rather then his off-field follies and the notoriety surrounding him? It is very easy to overlook his actual quality in face of his constant injury problems but a little digging around will show that his performance (and specially strike-rate) compares with the best of his contemporaries.

Therefore, Shoaib is at least as much of a shoe-in as Kapil to the all-time great subcontinental list as long as far as pure bowling ability is concerned.

EXACTLY

 

[FRAZ]

Why I trust in Shoaib because I trust in quality . God knows all but I know one thing for sure that he will go out there and will play for himself and will play his heart out and will take some wickets and he will never be playing 150 odd test matches to just make a record . Pathetic !!! This is what I trust in Shoaib . No matter what wicket it is , Shoaib is always a difficult customer to deal with .

 

[FRAZ]

My team

Gavaskar
Tendulkar (Want him to open)
Dravid (One down and who else)
Zaheer Abbas
Inzamam Ul Haq
Sangakara wk
Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis
Anil Kumble
Shoaib Akhtar

Kapil Dev 12th man (sorry but thats how it is )
Beat that
Same team to be kept for ODIs ....

It is a world class team and what seems to be the problem . The only debateable problem I see is that Murali is not there . TBH The difference b/w Murali and Kumble is that Kumble steadily does his job and keeps on taking a few "good" wickets and doesn't go for the turn or the condition of the pitch . On the other hand Murali if gets conditions in his favour then can just blast the opposition . I may keep a check on the following three spinners to be selected randomly after checking the conditions
1. Kumble
2. Murali
3. Saqlain .
Saqlain may fit in my ODI team and depending upon the mood of the pitch I will pick either one from Murali and Kumble.
And forget the current 12th man . Hmmm I want Saqlain in . I re-thought .

 

[deeps]

that's your opinion, fine....but variety for variety's sake is of little value....and kapil is the best indian bowler, the only challenge coming from kumble....and as i explained in my previous post, he adds much more that bowling capabilities to the team....as for sangakkara, he may be an excellent batsman, but as a wicketkeeper, the subcontinent has not seen finer, more durable, brilliant ones than bari or kirmani(lateef was excellent and s.vishwanath had the potential to become great but he wasted himself away)....and in an all-time xi, imo a wicketkeeper doesn't need to be an allrounder, he needs to be a specialist...there are enough classy batsmen, bowlers and allrounders around him already....

It doesn't matter if he's the Indian's best bowler (or second best). I have no Indian bowlers in my team except for a spinner, in Bishin Bedi. Kumble might be stiff to miss out, and in some conditions, Kumble would be the better option. But imo

Waqar, Wasim, Imran > Kapil Dev as a bowler.

I'm sure everyone would agree with that.

Not many teams play 4 quick bowlers, and if i was captaining a team, i certainly would not want 4 quicks. I'd want 3, with perhaps one spinner and a few all rounders.

Yes, he adds batting and fielding capabilities, but as you said for the keeper thing, in an all time xi, the batting shouldn't matter. If kapil dev is just a specialist bowler, he wouldn't come close to this team. Fast bowling has NEVER been a strong suite for india, and their best ever fast bowler (kapil dev), does not come close to the quality fast bowlers Pakistan have produced.

But because batting and bowling both count realisticly, he comes close.

And for Sangakkara, yes keeping is important, but this is hard to explain.

Sangakarras batting is MUCH better than any other keeprs, Latif would be the next closest in terms of batting, or maybe Moin, and there's a huge gap.

The difference in keeper quality, is not big enough imo, to make up for the HUGE gulf in batting quality.

You can NEVER have enough batting depth, you can have 6 of the absolute best batsman, and the tail will still be required to save some matches. Having someone of the calibre of Kumar Sangakkara coming in at 6/54 would be great.

 

[deeps]

Shoaib can be brilliant at times, but at other times he can be SO sporadic. His attitude also stinks (not just the injuries), and seems to hvae alot of troubles with his team mates/cricket board etc.

Either way, he is not in the same class as Waqar, Wasim and IMran at their peak, so he shouldn't be in the team either way.

 

[Xuhaib]

After 42 matches, Shoaib has taken 165 wickets at an average of 25.69 with a strike-rate of 45.39. He has destroyed multiple batting line-ups including the Australians on more then one occasion.

In his last 30 matches, the average drops down to 22.36 and the strike-rate to 39.

Kapil Dev's career strike-rate is 63.9 and his average is 29.64.

Kapil Dev's average for the comparable period (match 10 to 42) will be somewhere around 31-32. [I am not going to add the averages of all the individual matches precisely so this is just a quick mental check-up]

During the later part of his career (after match 50), his average pretty much stabilized around 29.


The lowest Kapil's average ever reached was 26.2 and it hovered around the 26 mark from the 29th to 34th match, never again going below 27 in his 131 match career.

Shoaib has amassed these figures in the days of (typically) easier batting conditions and better bats, not to mention neutral umpires. Kapil needed three overs more then Shoaib on average to get a wicket.

Dismissing Shoaib because of his tendency to get injured is idiotic. Aren't we supposed to pick a team on the actual performance of the player rather then his off-field follies and the notoriety surrounding him? It is very easy to overlook his actual quality in face of his constant injury problems but a little digging around will show that his performance (and specially strike-rate) compares with the best of his contemporaries.

Therefore, Shoaib is at least as much of a shoe-in as Kapil to the all-time great subcontinental list as long as far as pure bowling ability is concerned.

Great Post.

 

[honestbharani]

He was in my teams.

 

[silentstriker]

First you say:

Yes, he adds batting and fielding capabilities, but as you said for the keeper thing, in an all time xi, the batting shouldn't matter.

And then you say:

You can NEVER have enough batting depth, you can have 6 of the absolute best batsman, and the tail will still be required to save some matches. Having someone of the calibre of Kumar Sangakkara coming in at 6/54 would be great.

...

 

[Sanz]

After 42 matches, Shoaib has taken 165 wickets at an average of 25.69 with a strike-rate of 45.39. He has destroyed multiple batting line-ups including the Australians on more then one occasion.

In his last 30 matches, the average drops down to 22.36 and the strike-rate to 39.

Kapil Dev's career strike-rate is 63.9 and his average is 29.64.

Kapil Dev's average for the comparable period (match 10 to 42) will be somewhere around 31-32. [I am not going to add the averages of all the individual matches precisely so this is just a quick mental check-up]

During the later part of his career (after match 50), his average pretty much stabilized around 29.


The lowest Kapil's average ever reached was 26.2 and it hovered around the 26 mark from the 29th to 34th match, never again going below 27 in his 131 match career.

Shoaib has amassed these figures in the days of (typically) easier batting conditions and better bats, not to mention neutral umpires. Kapil needed three overs more then Shoaib on average to get a wicket.

Dismissing Shoaib because of his tendency to get injured is idiotic. Aren't we supposed to pick a team on the actual performance of the player rather then his off-field follies and the notoriety surrounding him? It is very easy to overlook his actual quality in face of his constant injury problems but a little digging around will show that his performance (and specially strike-rate) compares with the best of his contemporaries.

Therefore, Shoaib is at least as much of a shoe-in as Kapil to the all-time great subcontinental list as long as far as pure bowling ability is concerned.

Oh please !!! Shoaib is a very good bowler, but nowhere near Kapil. The 80s wickets of the subcontinent(at least in India) were the flattest and Kapil averages pretty well there. Kapil played against much better oppositions as opposed to Akhtar who has got some very cheap wickets against Bangladesh, Zimbawe and a NZ 2nd string side. WI and English(and even the NZ) side Shoaib has played against are much worse than the sides Kapil played for majority of his career.

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