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A finance idea that will take WCC to a whole new level!
- Thread starter Agent TBY
- Start date
Blewy
Cricketer Of The Year
ok, This issue will be put on hold for a while...
For those who are against Nothin will be implenmented unless i am 110% sure that it will benefit the WCC, by way of longevity and also not losing members
For those who support the idea, you can be assured i will look into this issue fully.....
For those who are against Nothin will be implenmented unless i am 110% sure that it will benefit the WCC, by way of longevity and also not losing members
For those who support the idea, you can be assured i will look into this issue fully.....
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
wow lots has been said
my opinion
Transfers:
contracts would have to be used, probably very similarly to the way they work in CM4, BUT would you be able to re-sign players if you want to or would you have to bid, obviously in real life the player decides what he wants to do, but that cant be done here, and in agreement with some people i dont want to have to bid on my own players.
Wages:
this is a much simpler system i think and would be much easier to run after the origional introduction.
Each team gets 3 sponsors, they get money from each of those sponsors. this pays player wages each team as they progress up gets more money from their sponsors and less if they get relegated, which forces teams to sell players to stay under budget as they go down. you also get money for winning competitions, this adds to your budget BUT only for 1 year, so you might get yourself a better player than have to sell him if you dont win anything.
this means that there will constantly be players on the move at the end of the season BUT people also get a say in what players leave the club.
now how to determine player wages: well obviously it cant be done by just 1 person, i would suggest a group of 2 or 3 people value each player, once budgets have been set and they are averaged, prefferably so that some of the players from better teams will be on the move. Brendon and Rich would have to look at the wages to double check that everything will fit in with how much money each team will be getting etc etc
MAJOR POINT: i think that every WCC manager should vote on this not just the board as its such a curtial part of the game
my opinion
Transfers:
contracts would have to be used, probably very similarly to the way they work in CM4, BUT would you be able to re-sign players if you want to or would you have to bid, obviously in real life the player decides what he wants to do, but that cant be done here, and in agreement with some people i dont want to have to bid on my own players.
Wages:
this is a much simpler system i think and would be much easier to run after the origional introduction.
Each team gets 3 sponsors, they get money from each of those sponsors. this pays player wages each team as they progress up gets more money from their sponsors and less if they get relegated, which forces teams to sell players to stay under budget as they go down. you also get money for winning competitions, this adds to your budget BUT only for 1 year, so you might get yourself a better player than have to sell him if you dont win anything.
this means that there will constantly be players on the move at the end of the season BUT people also get a say in what players leave the club.
now how to determine player wages: well obviously it cant be done by just 1 person, i would suggest a group of 2 or 3 people value each player, once budgets have been set and they are averaged, prefferably so that some of the players from better teams will be on the move. Brendon and Rich would have to look at the wages to double check that everything will fit in with how much money each team will be getting etc etc
MAJOR POINT: i think that every WCC manager should vote on this not just the board as its such a curtial part of the game
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
So we cannot disagreee with it on accounts of it being too complex, so one of our legitimate arguments goes out the window.Cloete said:
I really think that if this sort of thing is brought in, you will see people gradually fade away from the game, and new people won't last long, as the concept is not easy to grasp.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
For the managers maybe, but what about the person trying to keep track of all the bids etc and how much money everyone has.Cloete said:
It hasn't been that easy to keep track just of player movements during the trading phases, so adding in money to keep track of is going to more than double the work!
Also, what do we do about the manager who trades off a lot of players, but doesn't get many replacements? Maybe he ends up with 9 or 10 players and no money left - how do you fix that one?
Cloete said:
Funny that, I thought we had a board for a reason - I must be mistaken.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
For those using the CM and ICC series of games as an example of realism.
In that case, who is going to be the computer who decides if a player wants to move and how long a deal he wants?
CM and ICC are highly complex games which use oodles of CPU processing power.
WC is not and does not.
In that case, who is going to be the computer who decides if a player wants to move and how long a deal he wants?
CM and ICC are highly complex games which use oodles of CPU processing power.
WC is not and does not.
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
marc71178 said:
for once i agree with marc
this is why i suggested what i did in ythe wages section of my previous post
The Argonaut
State Vice-Captain
Wow you go away for a couple of days and you find this. It's all very interesting and in general I favour moving towards some sort of salary or transfer system.
The main problem as I see it is that some people don't access the site a lot. They will miss out on bidding. The deal could be done and they're not there to put in a bid if they're interested. In some scenarios they could also lose players because they are not there to better someone elses bid for their player. I don't access the site over the weekend so I could come back after the weekend and find that I've lost 5 of my players. Just something to keep in mind about the whatever system is decided on.
Next point: I know there is work being done on another game to base the sim on. Should we wait to see how this is going before designing the system. The vc4 sim does not take into account form at all and is based purely on stats. therefore if someone is going to set prices for players it must be done on averages not form over the last season. If the new sim takes form into account then wecan judge it then.
If it eventuates that salaries have to be decided then it should not be decided by one or even two managers but a committee of at least five managers. I would be willing to take part.
There are those that are saying that this will not be complicated but that is rubbish. It will be a lot of work for some people and that must be remembered. How we keep track of movements will be the hardest part. One central person must be able to keep track of it like Graham does during trading.
Don't even bother discussing player loyalty it just can't be dealt with here.
With regard to transfers what is to stop me from signing Matt Hayden for 10 years so that he will never be up for contract renewal.
Prizemoney and fines are a good idea. It may be that every side gets a base level of money and prizemoney decides the difference between sides. For example winning a game in division 1 may get you $1000 while winning in division 5 may get you $500. Therefore a strong side in division 5 may have more money to spend in the next season that a weak one in division 1.
Money should be allowed to be spent on junior development and therefore the rookie player's stats should increase if a greater amount is spent.
These are just little things that will need to be taken into account when deciding about this. They are potential problems that may arise with some of the systems discussed so far. As I said at the start I would be in favour of a salary/transfer system if it can be easily controlled and would be prepared to donate time in getting it up and going.
The main problem as I see it is that some people don't access the site a lot. They will miss out on bidding. The deal could be done and they're not there to put in a bid if they're interested. In some scenarios they could also lose players because they are not there to better someone elses bid for their player. I don't access the site over the weekend so I could come back after the weekend and find that I've lost 5 of my players. Just something to keep in mind about the whatever system is decided on.
Next point: I know there is work being done on another game to base the sim on. Should we wait to see how this is going before designing the system. The vc4 sim does not take into account form at all and is based purely on stats. therefore if someone is going to set prices for players it must be done on averages not form over the last season. If the new sim takes form into account then wecan judge it then.
If it eventuates that salaries have to be decided then it should not be decided by one or even two managers but a committee of at least five managers. I would be willing to take part.
There are those that are saying that this will not be complicated but that is rubbish. It will be a lot of work for some people and that must be remembered. How we keep track of movements will be the hardest part. One central person must be able to keep track of it like Graham does during trading.
Don't even bother discussing player loyalty it just can't be dealt with here.
With regard to transfers what is to stop me from signing Matt Hayden for 10 years so that he will never be up for contract renewal.
Prizemoney and fines are a good idea. It may be that every side gets a base level of money and prizemoney decides the difference between sides. For example winning a game in division 1 may get you $1000 while winning in division 5 may get you $500. Therefore a strong side in division 5 may have more money to spend in the next season that a weak one in division 1.
Money should be allowed to be spent on junior development and therefore the rookie player's stats should increase if a greater amount is spent.
These are just little things that will need to be taken into account when deciding about this. They are potential problems that may arise with some of the systems discussed so far. As I said at the start I would be in favour of a salary/transfer system if it can be easily controlled and would be prepared to donate time in getting it up and going.
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
so if you have any money left over from your squad wages than that goes into increasing the stats a slightly randomised amount of your rookeis - it would have to be slightly ranmdom increase as thats would be more realistic
once again however i want to express my opositionto bidding for players in your own team, this cannot work unless we knew what th eplayer was thinking and tahts not going to happen
once again however i want to express my opositionto bidding for players in your own team, this cannot work unless we knew what th eplayer was thinking and tahts not going to happen
Took me a while to read through all those posts, and there were some good idead there. One of my concerns was with wages and contracts and how teams could simply offer better contracts and the player would leave. If ive gotten a good player i want to keep them for as long as possible. Also when u are talking about wages the issue of a salary cap is also a concern, as if ive picked up so good rookies who have turned into stars they would be demanding large wages so i would struggle to keep them all under the cap. I feel that if u recruit a good players u should be able to keep them all.
But if u do want money to become involved i have some ideas. I think the only system that could be used is a transfer system. In my mind this would be the easiest system to implement and monitor. This would operate as it does in real life where teams would make bids for players and the manager selling can choose which club they will sell to or if they will sell at all. In a sense its just a change on the current system where instead of offering players you offer money. Having said that this doesnt meant that teams cant offer players in the transfer.
Also i was thinking that this money could be used to purchase rookies that come through the academy, so the team with the highest bid for the rookie would get that player. So i guess the possibility of picking up a excellent rookie could be incentive to sell players. Also as the Argonaut said the money could be used for developing current players.
The money for this sort of system would come from prizemoney, sponsorship and maybe grants from WCC to lower teams. My only concerns with this system is how to stop some teams from stockpiling money and how a system like this will mean that not all teams will have even numbers. A though i came up with is that all teams would have to pick 16 players and the remainder of their players will go somewhere and if injuries arrise u can bring ur extra players back at a cost.
But even after saying all that i dont have any problems with the current system, but if WCC is going to move forward in a positive way i wont be against it.
But if u do want money to become involved i have some ideas. I think the only system that could be used is a transfer system. In my mind this would be the easiest system to implement and monitor. This would operate as it does in real life where teams would make bids for players and the manager selling can choose which club they will sell to or if they will sell at all. In a sense its just a change on the current system where instead of offering players you offer money. Having said that this doesnt meant that teams cant offer players in the transfer.
Also i was thinking that this money could be used to purchase rookies that come through the academy, so the team with the highest bid for the rookie would get that player. So i guess the possibility of picking up a excellent rookie could be incentive to sell players. Also as the Argonaut said the money could be used for developing current players.
The money for this sort of system would come from prizemoney, sponsorship and maybe grants from WCC to lower teams. My only concerns with this system is how to stop some teams from stockpiling money and how a system like this will mean that not all teams will have even numbers. A though i came up with is that all teams would have to pick 16 players and the remainder of their players will go somewhere and if injuries arrise u can bring ur extra players back at a cost.
But even after saying all that i dont have any problems with the current system, but if WCC is going to move forward in a positive way i wont be against it.
Umpire Money
State Vice-Captain
Im afraid im going to have to agree with all the people who disagree.
This i think has been on the table since the first nrl sim started with wages and stuff now that was pretty simple this however puts alot of time to first implement and second to make the managers do.
First i think ill think of myself(why the hell not)
I am on here maybe twice a week with my social life, work, uni... and if i have to come on anymore im afraid i would lose all my players and then interest in the sim.
As it has been said the WCC is a success because of its simplicity and if it becomes too complex im afraid those people who love it because of this will lose interest(like me)
I love the idea but it will also put my commitment to more time on the net and im afraid im not willing to make that commitment as it is only a game and i have more important things to do.
The idea originally(although i wasnt here originally i was drafted in in like the fourth week) was to put a tiny thrill in everyones life to hopefully put a simple game together and reward the manager who has the best team.... now not that this wont happen but this tiny thrill will take more time for the thrill.
I think the last bit was mainly ramble...please ignore if offends but the point is there... the season is long enough as is we dont want to complecate things when we are losing almost a manager a round now.
This i think has been on the table since the first nrl sim started with wages and stuff now that was pretty simple this however puts alot of time to first implement and second to make the managers do.
First i think ill think of myself(why the hell not)
I am on here maybe twice a week with my social life, work, uni... and if i have to come on anymore im afraid i would lose all my players and then interest in the sim.
As it has been said the WCC is a success because of its simplicity and if it becomes too complex im afraid those people who love it because of this will lose interest(like me)
I love the idea but it will also put my commitment to more time on the net and im afraid im not willing to make that commitment as it is only a game and i have more important things to do.
The idea originally(although i wasnt here originally i was drafted in in like the fourth week) was to put a tiny thrill in everyones life to hopefully put a simple game together and reward the manager who has the best team.... now not that this wont happen but this tiny thrill will take more time for the thrill.
I think the last bit was mainly ramble...please ignore if offends but the point is there... the season is long enough as is we dont want to complecate things when we are losing almost a manager a round now.
Paid The Umpire
All Time Legend
Well said my old gray elephant whom has buckets.
Ditto.
Ditto.
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
i agree that it cant be too complex
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
So far, the only simple one I can see is the one whereby each team gets a wage budget to distribute around their side as they wish, and perhaps including some towards youth if they want.
At least 90% must be used up by the manager.
Any player then has a fixed wage, and the clubs can try and beat that offer (subject to a new rule that no player moves more than once in a season)
If players wish to trade for one another, the players are moved on their current wages (ie I offer AA on £10k for Tendulkar on £15k - when they swap, AA remains on £10k, so the other manager has £5k extra to spend)
At least 90% must be used up by the manager.
Any player then has a fixed wage, and the clubs can try and beat that offer (subject to a new rule that no player moves more than once in a season)
If players wish to trade for one another, the players are moved on their current wages (ie I offer AA on £10k for Tendulkar on £15k - when they swap, AA remains on £10k, so the other manager has £5k extra to spend)
Umpire Money said:
It really depends on which idea you take... In the idea I suggested and Andrew seems to favour alot would not change a thing to implment in that no player is given a value or anything, but the teams get money coming in through sponsorship etc and basically rather than during trading (which everyone is here for anyway) instead of just saying I'll give you him for him, you offer money instead with the fee to be decided between the managers etc.