2nd greatest living cricketer

[srbhkshk]

I bet you can't explain the 4 run average difference between home and away games

Pretty sure it's because when you divide the number of runs he gave away by the number of wickets he took for home and away, the resulting numbers have a difference of four.

 

[Bijed]

Where is shardul thakur option.

It's a poll for *second* greatest living cricketer

 

[nightprowler10]

IIRC, there was some drama about his 92 WC victory speech wherein he didn't adequately acknowledge his teammates but went right into talking about his cancer hospital.

EDIT:
I looked it up and it's hilariously self-centred. Transcript below:

"I would just like to say, I want to give my commiserations to the England team, but I want them to know that by winning this World Cup, personally, it means that one of my greatest obsessions in life, which is to build a cancer hospital, I'm sure that this World Cup will go a long way towards the completion of this obsession. I would also like to say that I feel very proud that at the twilight of my career, finally I have managed to win the World Cup. Thank you."

WTF

Haha. I do recall hearing something about this a few years ago. Hadn't ever paid attention to the transcript and his speech was tough to hear in the recordings. I guess it's not too surprising though, he's always been a bit egomaniacal. I was really young to know for sure but the team was certainly seen as Imran's team since he pushed and shoved to get his way during selection. And I recall hearing that our beloved dictator Zia had personally requested Imran to come out of retirement a few years prior. Not that Imran needed the ego boost, but all that certainly would've helped put him in such a mindset.

 

[smash84]

IIRC, there was some drama about his 92 WC victory speech wherein he didn't adequately acknowledge his teammates but went right into talking about his cancer hospital.

EDIT:
I looked it up and it's hilariously self-centred. Transcript below:

"I would just like to say, I want to give my commiserations to the England team, but I want them to know that by winning this World Cup, personally, it means that one of my greatest obsessions in life, which is to build a cancer hospital, I'm sure that this World Cup will go a long way towards the completion of this obsession. I would also like to say that I feel very proud that at the twilight of my career, finally I have managed to win the World Cup. Thank you."

WTF

Yeah, it tends to get overshadowed by the cornered tigers speech but this was really bad. The expressions on the faces of the team who were there listening, especially Wasim Akram, was priceless. Still remember Wasim looking on incredulously and probably waiting to hear Imran say something about the team, but zip, zilch, nada

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Picking Miandad over Dravid would be perfectly logical though so not sure what you're on about.

Based on batting strength - Yes
Based on bowling strength - No

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

If its McGrath vs Imran, I would give it to Imran since I think they are in the same ballpark bowling wise but Imran's better batting would have an actual match impact late in the order at no. 7 or 8.

With Hadlee, it is borderline IMO. If its a no. 10 or 11 position might as well go with McGrath.

With Imran you will get a slightly inferior bowler + Hadleeseque batting ( Before specialist batsman phase of his career)

With Hadlee, Slightly superior bowler + Handy bat

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Batting deep is important but there are more important things and I would not want to compromise an iota of my bowling potential so my number 11 could add few runs. Hadlee/ McGrath is bit complicated since they are very close but McGrath vs Wasim/Pollock less so.

Any who if I'm picking an AT attack, first thing I'd do is cover all the basis there are. I'd first pick the very best MM first who is skidding and swinging both ways so I would not pick Steyn or Donald afterwards as I have both of them covered. Then I'll be looking at corridor/extra bounce bowlers who could utilize the pitch to the maximum and then someone who is good at reverse/on flat wickets and has X Factor so the Pakistani guys comes and Steyn also gets back in the discussion. If they bat well so be it but that is the absolute last deal breaker. I mean you already have Bradman, Tendulkar, Richards, Sobers, Smith, Lara etc to make runs and I don't think anyone would factor in their bowling credentials when they pick the batting line up

1. What about Barnes?
2. An AT 11 supposed to play against another AT 11, that makes all these ATGs ordinary players bar Don and Sobers.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

So I've stopped picking these teams as honorary sections, but if I was actually selecting a side to take the field.

You want a decent no 8, but not at the expense of any drop off with regards to bowling effectiveness.
After all, if everything goes well, you're not relying on the lower tail that much. And if Bradman and co failed, what chance does the no 10 have. Additionally if you're relying on the no. 11 to regularly bail you out, you have bigger problems.

So for a ATG XI, well at least the automatic (well at least mine) selections, of.

Sir Leonard Hutton

Sir Donald Bradman


Sir Garfield Sobers
Adam Gilchrist

Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne (is he still seen as an automatic)


You want to not only have the best bowlers but the best combinations.

But going by the preference of having a decent no 8. There are 2 options, and all hinges on McGrath. If indeed he's the clear cut no 2 and a non negotiable.

Akram
Marshall
Warne
McGrath

Or if Hadlee is seen as an equal with the ball to McGrath, or at least close enough to make the batting part of it a factor.

Hadlee
Marshall
Warne
Steyn

Doesn't make sense having both McGrath and Hadlee as they are too similar as bowlers. So which is the better combination?

Hadlee
Akram
Marshall
Warne

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

McGrath and Imran are both ATG bowlers. Agreed, McGrath is a lock for top 3 and Imran isn't, but the differences progressively between top 10 bowlers is relatively marginal (plus Imran at peak level is better than all of them arguably), compared to the value-add of having Imran as a proper lower order batsman at 7-8.

Hadlee and Wasim to me are more handy batsmen than full all-rounders.

Imran was Hadlee league batsman before the specialist batsman phase.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

This has been previously and extensively litigated, and most disagree. But I believe Imran is the most over rated of the ATGs. The disparity of his home and away record makes 0 sense considering his home conditions and clearly speaks to the patriotic umpiring. There was also the ball tampering and even outside of that no one sees him as a top 5 bowler. For me he's borderline top 10, not terrible by any means, but not good enough for the 1st team.


Wasim is highly regarded by his peers and as far as I've seen or read, didn't have the same umpiring cloud that Imran has. But no, he isn't too 5 for me either, but higher than Imran.

Majority here rates Imran > Wasim in bowling ( his batting also overrated )

And people like you, prefer McGrath over Hadlee.

Just CW things.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

This has been previously and extensively litigated, and most disagree. But I believe Sobers is the most over rated of the ATGs. The disparity of his home and away record makes 0 sense considering his home conditions and clearly speaks to the patriotic umpiring. He had an average difference of 17 (!) between his home and away record. That's pretty bad. Clearly an unfair home advantage afaic.

But.. Sobers away bowling is better.. Unlike Imran's batting.

 

[trundler]

Majority here rates Imran > Wasim in bowling ( his batting also overrated )

lol no nobody thinks he was Viv Richards with the bat as his 50 average as a specialist batsman would indicate. People were uneasy with Imran batting top 6 in an all time side in that ultimate decade XI thread and even smali wouldn't bat him higher than 7. His batting was excellent for a bowling all rounder and enough pwnage has been doled out regarding his bowling today so I advise you scroll up.

But.. Sobers away bowling is better.. Unlike Imran's batting.

This has been dealt with. Next.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah, it tends to get overshadowed by the cornered tigers speech but this was really bad. The expressions on the faces of the team who were there listening, especially Wasim Akram, was priceless. Still remember Wasim looking on incredulously and probably waiting to hear Imran say something about the team, but zip, zilch, nada

Well, to Imran's credit, he apologized later and mentioned how embarrassed he was when he reheard his own speech.

And at the toss earlier, he was quite complimentary of his team.

 

[subshakerz]

Imran was Hadlee league batsman before the specialist batsman phase.

Not really. Imran was a specialist bat from 89-92. However, during his bowling peak from 80-88, he was still averaging 40 as a batsman and played as a pure batsman alone when he was injured from bowling.

I don't Hadlee at any point could make the team as a batsman alone. He was around Wasim-level really.

 

[Anil]

Yeah, it tends to get overshadowed by the cornered tigers speech but this was really bad. The expressions on the faces of the team who were there listening, especially Wasim Akram, was priceless. Still remember Wasim looking on incredulously and probably waiting to hear Imran say something about the team, but zip, zilch, nada

yeah remember that very well, extremely cringe-worthy...

 

[TheJediBrah]

IIRC, there was some drama about his 92 WC victory speech wherein he didn't adequately acknowledge his teammates but went right into talking about his cancer hospital.

EDIT:
I looked it up and it's hilariously self-centred. Transcript below:

"I would just like to say, I want to give my commiserations to the England team, but I want them to know that by winning this World Cup, personally, it means that one of my greatest obsessions in life, which is to build a cancer hospital, I'm sure that this World Cup will go a long way towards the completion of this obsession. I would also like to say that I feel very proud that at the twilight of my career, finally I have managed to win the World Cup. Thank you."

WTF

Political aspirations started pretty early eh

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Growing up the best all-rounder from Pakistan was Abdul Razzaq…man just did his thing

In the same category as Jacob Oram and Lance Klusner

 

[TheJediBrah]

I always thought Azhar Mahmood was better

 

[kyear2]

I've put forward the hypothetical before as to whether picking Mark Waugh over Sachin Tendulkar would make a stronger team. I don't necessarily think it would but depending on the rest of the team and where/how well they can field you could make an argument.

Is it a totally crazy idea to interject Bobby Simpson into the argument as an opening batsman?

Record as an opener is simply excellent, ATG slip fielder and a desperation spin option.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Is it a totally crazy idea to interject Bobby Simpson into the argument as an opening batsman?

Record as an opener is simply excellent, ATG slip fielder and a desperation spin option.

I've seen him mentioned in exactly that context more than a few times