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2023-24 Australian domestic cricket season
- Thread starter GoodAreasShane
- Start date
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
He's better than Paine, but Paine set the bar really low. Fact is there's no one else - Head is the next most obvious, but he hasn't even been sure of retaining his spot on Asia tours courtesy of some selectorial silliness.
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I've made a fair few short critical comments about the pitches recently, so time for a longer one.
I don't agree for the alleged wonders of flat pitches - India and Pakistan had very flat pitches in the fifties and sixties and their batsmen were renowned for following the moving ball. They can create hard handed, push at the ball techniques. But I think it is true to say that test pitches in general are generally less supportive of seam movement. England and some pitches in SA and NZ are the only places where this tends to be less true. And @social's point about modern techniques is also true.
The Shield pitches I see are flat and easy-paced to genuinely slow, or distinctly green, and vary from fast to slow but rarely giving the batsmen the opportunity to play through the line confidently. As @TheJediBrah says there needs to be a happy medium. The 'traditional' Australian pitch has true bounce, but plenty of it, and a little bit of movement for the better bowlers. Hence batsmen could play time but more accurate bowlers who could nibble the ball could take wickets.
The one thing I don't, in my opinion, see is fairly flat but fast and bouncy pitches that reward a bowler who is faster or has better finger work to create movement, but let the batsmen trust their shots and punish less accurate bowlers. Instead it's green tops that reward trundlers and make opening very difficult, or Junction Oval style roads that don't challenge the batsmen at all. I'm not sure what happened to the art of preparing that sort of pitch. They could at least cut the grass a bit more, combined with a bit more rolling, but without overdoing it and turning it into the concrete surfaces we see in recent Sydney test matches. The odd pitch which turns would also be nice. Force each team to pick two spinners at least once a season.
The other aspect is that the pitches now seem to be more homogenous, particularly since the WACA went flat and they relayed the SCG and stopped scalping it. More variety is needed. I don't think the use of out grounds is helping either, their surfaces generally seem to be slower.
I don't agree for the alleged wonders of flat pitches - India and Pakistan had very flat pitches in the fifties and sixties and their batsmen were renowned for following the moving ball. They can create hard handed, push at the ball techniques. But I think it is true to say that test pitches in general are generally less supportive of seam movement. England and some pitches in SA and NZ are the only places where this tends to be less true. And @social's point about modern techniques is also true.
The Shield pitches I see are flat and easy-paced to genuinely slow, or distinctly green, and vary from fast to slow but rarely giving the batsmen the opportunity to play through the line confidently. As @TheJediBrah says there needs to be a happy medium. The 'traditional' Australian pitch has true bounce, but plenty of it, and a little bit of movement for the better bowlers. Hence batsmen could play time but more accurate bowlers who could nibble the ball could take wickets.
The one thing I don't, in my opinion, see is fairly flat but fast and bouncy pitches that reward a bowler who is faster or has better finger work to create movement, but let the batsmen trust their shots and punish less accurate bowlers. Instead it's green tops that reward trundlers and make opening very difficult, or Junction Oval style roads that don't challenge the batsmen at all. I'm not sure what happened to the art of preparing that sort of pitch. They could at least cut the grass a bit more, combined with a bit more rolling, but without overdoing it and turning it into the concrete surfaces we see in recent Sydney test matches. The odd pitch which turns would also be nice. Force each team to pick two spinners at least once a season.
The other aspect is that the pitches now seem to be more homogenous, particularly since the WACA went flat and they relayed the SCG and stopped scalping it. More variety is needed. I don't think the use of out grounds is helping either, their surfaces generally seem to be slower.
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Well I think this shuts down the Labuschagne to open after Warner question. Kawaja quote on cricinfo:
"Have you asked Marnus this? I think he would give you a really clear, 'hell no'," Khawaja said. "Marnus has got opening-itis. I am pretty sure Davey Warner hurt his arm and sent Alex Carey out to open. I think that is a long shot."
"Khawaja said he had no preference about who got the gig but made the point it should be a regular opener"
Looks like Bancroft it is then...
"Have you asked Marnus this? I think he would give you a really clear, 'hell no'," Khawaja said. "Marnus has got opening-itis. I am pretty sure Davey Warner hurt his arm and sent Alex Carey out to open. I think that is a long shot."
"Khawaja said he had no preference about who got the gig but made the point it should be a regular opener"
Looks like Bancroft it is then...
GotSpin
Hall of Fame Member
Cummins cost us two series wins this year. He’s awful
MJ is right in that locking in a farewell tour for Warner his detrimental to the future of the team but the constant sand paper stuff is over the top
Gob
International Coach
Don't think it's fair to dump both the BG and the Ashes entirely on Cummins tbh. Sure he made questionable calls but ultimately there's very little he can do when they collectively decided to sweep bouncers and drop catches (Carey at the oval)
Nintendo
Cricketer Of The Year
Huh? What two series did he cost us as captain?
Nintendo
Cricketer Of The Year
He's also struggled in county and for Aus-A in that period, tbf. If where going to pick a subpar opener ide rather pick one who can bat away (ie; renshaw).
I know Bancroft failed against NZ-A this year (84 runs @ 21.00) but overall he has a pretty good 8 game Aus-A record:
590 runs @ 49.16, 1 hundred, 3 fifties
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Nintendo
Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah he should be the first cab off the rank after top scoring the first half of the shield season. I just don't like the idea of him getting easy runs vs WI then failing in NZ.
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
It's interesting to look at Warner and Bancroft in the 2019 Ashes series. Warner played all 5 Tests and averaged 9.50 while Bancroft played in two averaging 11.00. Both poor performances yet one continued to be given a permanent spot while the other has been discarded.
TheJediBrah
Request Your Custom Title Now!
yeah a real mystery . . .
GoodAreasShane
Cricketer Of The Year
If there was some supposed anti-Bancroft agenda from CA, then he wouldn't have been picked for the 2019 Ashes in the first place
The whole narrative that he has in any shape or form been hard done by is absolute nonsense, not based in reality in the slightest
The whole narrative that he has in any shape or form been hard done by is absolute nonsense, not based in reality in the slightest
Kraken
State Captain
100% correct. However, should he not get chosen to be Warner's replacement, then he may have a slight reason to feel hard done by considering the numbers he's putting up.
I'm not even a Bancroft fan, I just think scoring lots of runs should actually mean something (I'm still dirty Dan Hughes hasn't got an ODI look in despite being clearly the best bat in the domestic format for years now)
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
An interesting point raised in an article by Gharner in The Roar:
"What do these cricketing luminaries have in common: Jack Ryder, Don Bradman, Neil Harvey, Ray Lindwall, Alan Davidson, Greg Chappell, Bob Simpson, Allan Border, David Boon, Rod Marsh, Mark Waugh, Justin Langer?
At any given time after World War II until the appointment of McDonald as coach, at least one of them was a selector or coach of the national side.
Compare the current group of McDonald, George Bailey and Tony Dodemaide, and you will find a total of 19 Test matches between them."
Is this why players (eg Warner) appear to be calling the selection shots rather than the actual selectors. Bailey has already distanced himself from the Paine issue because of his friendship with Tim. We need selectors who are experienced and strong enough to make the hard calls.
"What do these cricketing luminaries have in common: Jack Ryder, Don Bradman, Neil Harvey, Ray Lindwall, Alan Davidson, Greg Chappell, Bob Simpson, Allan Border, David Boon, Rod Marsh, Mark Waugh, Justin Langer?
At any given time after World War II until the appointment of McDonald as coach, at least one of them was a selector or coach of the national side.
Compare the current group of McDonald, George Bailey and Tony Dodemaide, and you will find a total of 19 Test matches between them."
Are selectors endangering Australia's future by putting Dave Warner’s personal aspirations ahead of team legacy?
The persistent selection of David Warner, to give him a farewell series, defies all logic.
www.theroar.com.au
Is this why players (eg Warner) appear to be calling the selection shots rather than the actual selectors. Bailey has already distanced himself from the Paine issue because of his friendship with Tim. We need selectors who are experienced and strong enough to make the hard calls.
Spark
Global Moderator
Bailey distanced himself from the Paine issue because the two are literally business partners, not just friends, and so it wasn't just that they were close but there was a direct financial conflict of interest at stake.
Always remember: all this carping ends up coming back to the fact that people are sore that a guy who lost a series to India's C team at home lost his job. A year later.
Always remember: all this carping ends up coming back to the fact that people are sore that a guy who lost a series to India's C team at home lost his job. A year later.