Shane Warne vs Dale Steyn

[Johan]

I don't think so, considering the love affairs with Australian players (and stats) in here and elsewhere.

Elsewhere sure, here I don't think any too outrageous takes regarding Australian players, barring Burgey ofcourse.

 

[Prince EWS]

I reckon Imran > Warne > Steyn. So the opposite of kyear2.

 

[kyear2]

I reckon Imran > Warne > Steyn. So the opposite of kyear2.

As bowlers alone?

 

[Prince EWS]

As bowlers alone?

Yes.

I have Ambrose ahead of all of them though.

 

[kyear2]

Yes.

I have Ambrose ahead of all of them though.

Imran over Steyn isn't registering for me.

 

[Coronis]

Imran over Steyn isn't registering for me.

You have to hand over your credit card info and DOB first

 

[Prince EWS]

Imran over Steyn isn't registering for me.

You've always rated Steyn a bit higher than I do. I dock him a little bit for his friendly home pitched in an otherwise brutal era for bowling.

I think he's the best ever bowler to be worse than Warne and Murali though.

 

[Johan]

You've always rated Steyn a bit higher than I do. I dock him a little bit for his friendly home pitched in an otherwise brutal era for bowling.

I think he's the best ever bowler to be worse than Warne and Murali though.

You have a top ten bowler list PEWS?

 

[Prince EWS]

You have a top ten bowler list PEWS?

McGrath
Marshall
Hadlee
Ambrose
Imran
Warne
Murali
Steyn
Barnes
Davidson

 

[Johan]

McGrath
Marshall
Hadlee
Ambrose
Imran
Warne
Murali
Steyn
Barnes
Davidson

Nice, Nice to see atleast someone else still has Ambrose over Imran and Steyn.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Nice, Nice to see atleast someone else still has Ambrose over Imran and Steyn.

I think based on polls most of us rank Ambrose over Imran. As he should be imo. Steyn though, is a different story. He's probably more of a toss up.

 

[DrWolverine]

Steyn > Ambrose

Ambrose vs Imran is slightly debatable but I will choose Sir Curtly ahead

 

[Coronis]

McGrath
Marshall
Hadlee
Ambrose
Imran
Warne
Murali
Steyn
Barnes
Davidson

Really?

Don't think I've ever seen anyone rate Davidson over Lindwall.

Care to share the rationale?

Show your working please

 

[smash84]

You have to hand over your credit card info and DOB first

This is sooooo corny that it's funny

 

[kyear2]

You've always rated Steyn a bit higher than I do. I dock him a little bit for his friendly home pitched in an otherwise brutal era for bowling.

I think he's the best ever bowler to be worse than Warne and Murali though.

Steyn and Imran both struggled away from home.

The difference is that Steyn had absolute nonsense to deal with away from home, Imran had more than decent, and probably good conditions away from home.

Yet, 25 in the Caribbean, 28 in India, 27 (taking away his final series, which is confounding as to why, we don't do this for Punter or Viv) in Australia. He was only good over his bowling career vs England, again taking away his first couple series, and minnow SL.

Steyn easy clear over Imran. So are the spinners.

 

[kyear2]

Nice, Nice to see atleast someone else still has Ambrose over Imran and Steyn.

The last ranking we had, I don't recall who was ahead but Ambrose and Steyn were close, Imran was well behind.

Ambrose and Steyn are always close in polls (as they should be), and both have consistently beaten Imran.

 

[kyear2]

I think based on polls most of us rank Ambrose over Imran. As he should be imo. Steyn though, is a different story. He's probably more of a toss up.

I fully agree, Steyn and Ambrose can go either way for me.

And they were like polar opposites as far as bowing goes as well.

 

[subshakerz]

Steyn and Imran both struggled away from home.

The difference is that Steyn had absolute nonsense to deal with away from home, Imran had more than decent, and probably good conditions away from home.

Yet, 25 in the Caribbean, 28 in India, 27 (taking away his final series, which is confounding as to why, we don't do this for Punter or Viv) in Australia. He was only good over his bowling career vs England, again taking away his first couple series, and minnow SL.

Steyn easy clear over Imran. So are the spinners.

Kyear still insists that Imran who takes 6WPM at 45SR struggles in WI, whereas Ambrose who takes 3WPM in SA at near 60 SR is a success.

Hence why I say Imran is underrated.

 

[shortpitched713]

**** it, I've been laying off because I don't like disrespecting the dead, but here's why imo Warne isn't in the upper pantheon of ATG bowlers.

Everyone knows that in the comparison between Warne and Murali once you take out the minnows the stats are pretty comparable (let's put aside the fact that those minnow wickets are pretty essential for SL to convert those matches into wins). Warne gets the better away SR, and Murali has a higher WPI.

The problem is those are just silly raw numbers that don't take into account the context. It's not Marshall or Gilly, or anyone else who might have had great team support, but Warne is the biggest downhill skier of all time, and that's propped up his legacy. Being the spinner on a team with an ATG pace attack, he's getting a disproportionate amount of bowling load skewed towards the second innings, and that basically guarantees 9/10 times he's working in a lot of already favorable positions. To add to that, batsmen in those days were really hindered from going into counterattack when their teams were behind, in the chance of saving draws, and this also happened to play right into Warne's hands. He was much better at attacking defensive batsmen, and didn't like being under the cosh of a more attacking approach, part of the reason he didn't favor and had to leave ODIs, whether it's admitted to or not. Everything ended up playing into perfect scenarios for him to succeed thae vast majority of the time. Put him against more aggressive modern batsmen, or on a different team and i don't think he ends up with quite as low of an average. Legendary player still, but I don't think there's any comparison to Murali, who imo rightly takes a place right alongside the big five pacers (Hadlee, Marshall, Ambrose, McGrath, Steyn).

I know this will be taken as nothing more than a rallying cry for this den of convicts to circle around their man, but the facts are the facts and I have to state it like it is. (In case you think I only single out Warne, among deceased past legends, I also think Kobe is overrated, as a rather too inefficient but highly talented player, who got rather enamored with the green light to be his team's late shot clock low percentage shooter).

 

[subshakerz]

**** it, I've been laying off because I don't like disrespecting the dead, but here's why imo Warne isn't in the upper pantheon of ATG bowlers.

Everyone knows that in the comparison between Warne and Murali once you take out the minnows the stats are pretty comparable (let's put aside the fact that those minnow wickets are pretty essential for SL to convert those matches into wins). Warne gets the better away SR, and Murali has a higher WPI.

The problem is those are just silly raw numbers that don't take into account the context. It's not Marshall or Gilly, or anyone else who might have had great team support, but Warne is the biggest downhill skier of all time, and that's propped up his legacy. Being the spinner on a team with an ATG pace attack, he's getting a disproportionate amount of bowling load skewed towards the second innings, and that basically guarantees 9/10 times he's working in a lot of already favorable positions. To add to that, batsmen in those days were really hindered from going into counterattack when their teams were behind, in the chance of saving draws, and this also happened to play right into Warne's hands. He was much better at attacking defensive batsmen, and didn't like being under the cosh of a more attacking approach, part of the reason he didn't favor and had to leave ODIs, whether it's admitted to or not. Everything ended up playing into perfect scenarios for him to succeed thae vast majority of the time. Put him against more aggressive modern batsmen, or on a different team and i don't think he ends up with quite as low of an average. Legendary player still, but I don't think there's any comparison to Murali, who imo rightly takes a place right alongside the big five pacers (Hadlee, Marshall, Ambrose, McGrath, Steyn).

I know this will be taken as nothing more than a rallying cry for this den of convicts to circle around their man, but the facts are the facts and I have to state it like it is. (In case you think I only single out Warne, among deceased past legends, I also think Kobe is overrated, as a rather too inefficient but highly talented player, who got rather enamored with the green light to be his team's late shot clock low percentage shooter).

The problem with all this is that he was the lead bowler in the team in the early 90s before he had worldclass bowling support.

And your critiques apply even moreso to Murali who had more supportive home pitches but also was less effective in the start of games. And Murali went into a defensive shell once he was sufficiently attacked as Lara said. Even his own captain Jaya called Murali a defensive bowler.

At least Warne even when getting smacked still could occasionally get the wickets of bats. He rarely stopped attacking.

Having said that, I agree top tier pacers are ahead, but not pacers with little varied success cross conditions.