Is Kapil Dev an ATG test cricketer?

[kyear2]

Sobers, Hadlee, Imran, Botham.. Etc are the names usually discussed along with the name Kapil Dev. That should be more than enough proof for his greatness.

Really aren't.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Ganguly top scored 23 times for the team and contributed 11.78% of team runs. ( 188 innings )

Mark Waugh 25 and 11.8% ( 205 innings )

Kapil Dev 15 and 8.28% ( 184 innings ).. And he was a World Record breaking Bowler.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Kapil is not great. He's not great in either discipline. You leave out a bowler or batman to include him in your lineup, he's seriously diminishing one or the other. That's not the case with true atg all rounders: Sobers, Imran, Hadlee or Kallis.

 

[Johan]

Kapil is not great. He's not great in either discipline. You leave out a bowler or batman to include him in your lineup, he's seriously diminishing one or the other. That's not the case with true atg all rounders: Sobers, Imran, Hadlee or Kallis.

do you think there's no worth to an all rounder if they're not ATG in one of the disciplines?

 

[Sliferxxxx]

do you think there's no worth to an all rounder if they're not ATG in one of the disciplines?

In general no. But if the team in question is short in either resource yes. For example an atg world XI:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Sachin
Viv
Hammond
Gilchrist +
Wasim
Marshall
Warne
McGrath

You replace any of the batsmen with Dev, then the batting is seriously diminished. Replace a bowler ditto. Replace one of the bowlers with a great like Hadlee or Imran, there's not a discernable change in the bowling strength. Replace a batsman not named Bradman with Sobers or Kallis, there isn't a massive decrease in batting strength.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Sobers, Hadlee, Imran, Botham.. Etc are the names usually discussed along with the name Kapil Dev. That should be more than enough proof for his greatness.

Botham and Kapil are generally rated a level below the other three

 

[subshakerz]

Botham is better than Kapil due to superior batting. Bowling wise, both are equal. Botham was worst vs Windies while Dev was the best vs Windies.

Imran was better than Kapil vs WI but otherwise agree.

 

[subshakerz]

Like seriously, lol

Do you consider Botham an ATG? I do. Bur not Kapil.

 

[Coronis]

Really aren't.

I’ve never heard a pundit discuss Kapil without comparing him to the other 80’s allrounders actually.

I’m pretty sure it’d be hard to find a comparison thread here of his without one of them also being discussed.

 

[honestbharani]

Kyear2 was one a good friend of Kapil. Back in August 1991, when Marshall played his last test and was on 376 wickets, Kyear2 requested Kapil (who was on the same no. of wickets) to retire too as he considered it a bit disrespectful that an average bowler takes more wickets than his God. Kapil refused and played on and on until he broke Hadlee's record. They haven't been on talking terms since then.

worse than what Sangakkara did to @Himannv IMO.

@Red_Ink_Squid knows.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Kapil is not great. He's not great in either discipline. You leave out a bowler or batman to include him in your lineup, he's seriously diminishing one or the other. That's not the case with true atg all rounders: Sobers, Imran, Hadlee or Kallis.

By that logic, Klusner is not an ODI ATG.

Kapil is an ATG AR.. Without a shadow of doubt. And will continue to be rated above the likes of Walsh, Dravid.. Etc

 

[subshakerz]

Kapil is not great. He's not great in either discipline. You leave out a bowler or batman to include him in your lineup, he's seriously diminishing one or the other. That's not the case with true atg all rounders: Sobers, Imran, Hadlee or Kallis.

You don't consider Botham great then?

 

[reyrey]

IMO Kapil and Botham are ATGs.

They are ATGs for things like their match winning performances, longevity, what they meant to their country and team mates and their all-round ability.

They may not get into a World ATG XI, but they sure as hell would improve your average test team just as much if not more than some of those World XI ATGs would.

 

[subshakerz]

The reason that the batting of one's keeper is stressed more than that for one's bowlers, is that once again, the wicket keeper is the steadfast 2nd all rounder position. Batting is a pre- requisite. It's isn't for bowling, because bowling is by far the primary prerequisite and most smart teams isn't hurting their bowling quality for additional batting.

Except you have stated multiple times you are looking for a no.8 who can bat in your side ideally. You just don't want to admit it's a near prerequisite because of course that opens the doors to bowling ARs and then ones you would rather sideline like Imran or Kapil have more or a claim.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

You don't consider Botham great then?

Great yes. Atg no

 

[capt_Luffy]

Great yes. Atg no

I mean, given you are on the fence on Miller, it's probably only natural you don't these 2. I personally don't think to be an ATG you have to be one in either discipline (also like, have a much looser use of the word as well).

 

[subshakerz]

Great yes. Atg no

Seems a bit too strict.

Botham has some massive output for an AR.

Played 102 games, took 27 fifers, 22 fifties and 14 tons. That's a lot of impact relative to his sample size.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Kapil is not great. He's not great in either discipline. You leave out a bowler or batman to include him in your lineup, he's seriously diminishing one or the other. That's not the case with true atg all rounders: Sobers, Imran, Hadlee or Kallis.

I think ATGs should be at least decent in all 3 major areas of cricket...batting, bowling and fielding. If they are poor in 1 or 2 major aspects of cricket, they dont deserve the tag " cricket great "
McGrath, Donald.. Etc are not ATGs..they are one trick ponies

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Seems a bit too strict.

Botham has some massive output for an AR.

Played 102 games, took 27 fifers, 22 fifties and 14 tons. That's a lot of impact relative to his sample size.

Massive output and achievements yes agreed. And you include him generally in a team short of class pace or class batting but a conventional atg team he's not making. Let's use Pakistan as an example:

Saeed
Hanif
Younis
Javed
Inzi
Rizwan+
Imran*
Wasim
Waqar
Saqlain
Shoaib

Are you leaving out any of the above for Sir Ian?

He'd likely make it into SL, and India, NZ. He adds absolutely nothing to the RSA, WI or Australian XIs. England, including him at 6 diminishes their batting. As one of of the 4 bowlers maybe there isn't much of a gap their in retrospect, between him and rhe other seamers. So maybe he makes it into England's team as one of the 4 front line bowlers idk. He's not coming close to a Worldl XI so nope not an atg for me.

 

[Johan]

Massive output and achievements yes agreed. And you include him generally in a team short of class pace or class batting but a conventional atg team he's not making. Let's use Pakistan as an example:

Saeed
Hanif
Younis
Javed
Inzi
Rizwan+
Imran*
Wasim
Waqar
Saqlain
Shoaib

Are you leaving out any of the above for Sir Ian?

He'd likely make it into SL, and India, NZ. He adds absolutely nothing to the RSA, WI or Australian XIs. England, including him at 6 diminishes their batting. As one of of the 4 bowlers maybe there isn't much of a gap their in retrospect, between him and rhe other seamers. So maybe he makes it into England's team as one of the 4 front line bowlers idk. He's not coming close to a Worldl XI so nope not an atg for me.

he's an easy choice over Shoaib