2024–25 Australian Domestic Season

[social]

Supposedly they try to legitimise it by measuring bowling speed and a few other things but you could probably cheat it pretty easily

Nope

You’re supposed to bowl at a similar pace/similar revolutions etc to a game

If Griffith had been tested at his peak, he couldn’t just rock up to testing and bowl 120ks

 

[TheJediBrah]

You’re supposed to bowl at a similar pace/similar revolutions etc to a game

That's what I just said bro lol

 

[the big bambino]

No because it's so long ago that it's not in the slightest bit relevant to anything that happens in the modern game. Professionalism and structure in the game both international and domestic has came so incredibly far that it really might as well be a whole different sport.

Like I said, apples and oranges

Rubbish. It's something all throughout cricket's history. More recent examples include Vettori and Akram. Getting close for you yet? I'll see if I can find the list ... Look, I thought like you. At the most only wanted Konstas to play at 6. But smiling George and his pals got this one right and you are too ossified in thinking.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Rubbish. It's something all throughout cricket's history. More recent examples include Vettori and Akram. Getting close for you yet? I'll see if I can find the list ... Look, I thought like you. At the most only wanted Konstas to play at 6. But smiling George and his pals got this one right and you are too ossified in thinking.

Ahh jfc here we go again.

I genuinely cannot conceive the mind of anyone who can look at the way Konstas played in that last Shield game and not come to the conclusion that he was a player so clearly and obviously confused on how to approach things. At the end of the day, batting is still fundamentally a mental endeavour, and absolutely nobody on the face of the planet no matter how promisingly they start is mentally ready for the immense step up to Test cricket without a thorough grounding at the domestic level.

If you live in a country with a strong First Class system (which we obviously do) it's honestly a complete dereliction of duty not to use it fully

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Also on a better note, half a chance I might be going to the 50 over final tomorrow

 

[Burgey]

I think it's pretty obvious Konstas was picked to play the way he did, almost exclusively because of Bumrah and the need to try something against him. He was already in the sights of the selectors after some early season form, and when he made that BBL score he got the nod, and tbh it worked for those two tests.

I generally agree with the idea of putting FC runs on the board before being considered for test selection, but occasionally a left field pick is both necessary and worth a punt. They just usually seem to happen when we tour the SC though.

I think the problem with the Konstas situation isn't so much that he was picked when he was as that he hasn't been given a clear idea as to what's expected of him moving forward in terms of his approach to batting, and as a result he's now into an all-or-nothing mode of play where he's either 20 off a hundred or trying to play ramps in the first over of a Shield game.

tl;dr - they've ****ed with his head, and a muddled mind never makes runs.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

I think it's pretty obvious Konstas was picked to play the way he did, almost exclusively because of Bumrah and the need to try something against him. He was already in the sights of the selectors after some early season form, and when he made that BBL score he got the nod, and tbh it worked for those two tests.

I generally agree with the idea of putting FC runs on the board before being considered for test selection, but occasionally a left field pick is both necessary and worth a punt. They just usually seem to happen when we tour the SC though.

I think the problem with the Konstas situation isn't so much that he was picked when he was as that he hasn't been given a clear idea as to what's expected of him moving forward in terms of his approach to batting, and as a result he's now into an all-or-nothing mode of play where he's either 20 off a hundred or trying to play ramps in the first over of a Shield game.

tl;dr - they've ****ed with his head, and a muddled mind never makes runs.

I do see where you are coming from to an extent, my issue is that the early season form you speak of consisted of one superb Shield game (where he didn't try the ramps really at all) and then a mickey mouse 15 a side game (where he did ramp and play other such shots quite a lot). That isn't enough in my view, not even particularly close

No argument that his approach was definitely transiently useful (the MCG especially, only time all series Bumrah looked short on answers) but the way I see it is that his mind wouldn't have been screwed with in the first place if they left him to play for NSW

 

[the big bambino]

If you live in a country with a strong First Class system (which we obviously do) it's honestly a complete dereliction of duty not to use it fully

Where do you think they picked him from - back yard at Mums? Here's a few more test debutants after minimal fc matches - Duminy, Muzarabani and Nathan Lyon: Fc debut Feb 2011 and test debut 6 months later; hmmm. You don't think outside the square or understand circumstances alter cases. No imagination, no risk. Just rigid old think.

I do see where you are coming from to an extent,

No argument that his approach was definitely transiently useful (the MCG especially, only time all series Bumrah looked short on answers) but the way I see it is that his mind wouldn't have been screwed with in the first place if they left him to play for NSW

Dear me. Then shut it. The Konstas experiment is justified because it played a part in winning an important series that's eluded us for a long time. Neither is his present form justification for your belief he should be nannied. Many players picked early have had setbacks and had to wait a while before getting back into the team. Part of the learning process. Konstas has his own issues he has to deal with as has any player who's played cricket. It's better he's getting sorted at domestic level and reflect on his game.

 

[honestbharani]

I think it's pretty obvious Konstas was picked to play the way he did, almost exclusively because of Bumrah and the need to try something against him. He was already in the sights of the selectors after some early season form, and when he made that BBL score he got the nod, and tbh it worked for those two tests.

I generally agree with the idea of putting FC runs on the board before being considered for test selection, but occasionally a left field pick is both necessary and worth a punt. They just usually seem to happen when we tour the SC though.

I think the problem with the Konstas situation isn't so much that he was picked when he was as that he hasn't been given a clear idea as to what's expected of him moving forward in terms of his approach to batting, and as a result he's now into an all-or-nothing mode of play where he's either 20 off a hundred or trying to play ramps in the first over of a Shield game.

tl;dr - they've ****ed with his head, and a muddled mind never makes runs.

It really depends on how and if they have been communicating with him. I understand how the move worked for that series in particular but honestly, even with that, we were a bad shot and a badly timed injury to Bumrah away from even ending up winning the series.

I suppose fundamentally I am against selectors using cricketers in a "use and throw" fashion. I feel its also their job to be accountable to how these players go once they have been selected and then dropped. Its fine if he was a horses for courses pick for one series. But the selectors at least owe him a conversation on how he can be a regular in the squad/side and how they see the side playing going forward. This way, he can at least figure out how to put himself back in contention.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Where do you think they picked him from - back yard at Mums?

OK now that is just blatant bad faith strawmanning.

You know full well my viewpoint was that the amount of FC games he had played was insufficient, to try and suggest I was saying something different as intellectually dishonest as it gets.

Seriously bemused by JP Duminy getting a mention too, he was 24 and had been around the South African white ball setup for quite some time before he had burst into Test cricket in that series here in 2008/09. He wasn't some raw kid at all.

Muzarabani did make a debut early, but it wasn't until he returned to the Zimbabwe team after a couple of years and a stint with Northamptonshire that he grew in to the bowler he was. Lyon definitely did come in and succeed without much professional gametime, but both are specialist bowlers, I am definitely more OK with bowlers being picked earlier on raw physical attributes IF the more established options aren't up to it

So much about batting really is between the ears though, so that is where experience truly matters

 

[Qlder]

Wow, totally missed the one-day Cup final yesterday, congrats to SA.

McSweeney has really been in bad form since his test sacking. Did nothing in BBL and since then made 28, 8 and 7 in 3 one-day games and 20 & 7 in the Shield game

 

[the big bambino]

OK now that is just blatant bad faith strawmanning.

You know full well my viewpoint was that the amount of FC games he had played was insufficient, to try and suggest I was saying something different as intellectually dishonest as it gets.

Seriously bemused by JP Duminy getting a mention too, he was 24 and had been around the South African white ball setup for quite some time before he had burst into Test cricket in that series here in 2008/09. He wasn't some raw kid at all.

Muzarabani did make a debut early, but it wasn't until he returned to the Zimbabwe team after a couple of years and a stint with Northamptonshire that he grew in to the bowler he was. Lyon definitely did come in and succeed without much professional gametime, but both are specialist bowlers, I am definitely more OK with bowlers being picked earlier on raw physical attributes IF the more established options aren't up to it

So much about batting really is between the ears though, so that is where experience truly matters

Goal keeper GAS dives the wrong way but no problem for him - just move the goal posts. You mention fc games as the criteria and then count Duminy's white ball experience to exclude him. And you talk about bad faith - hilarious. Keep Duminy. I don't mind throwing you a bone. The others I mentioned are good enough (I find it amusing you tried to corral Sobers as too distant just to avoid the embarrassment). Now try these - Charlie Griffith, Aubrey Faulkner and Malcolm Marshall (who may be on repeat but he's so good he's worth another mention). I'll wait to see how you try to dissemble them away. But I'll give you more if you do.

My word you're a bit of a name caller aren't you? I know what your so called viewpoint is. I'm saying that in some cases the gamble is worth it and it doesn't matter the no. of games a debutant has played. That's where the difference of opinion lies and it's not dishonest to point out they picked him from the fc set up and an international match. He provided the evidence and the need was pressing and they gambled accordingly.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Goal keeper GAS dives the wrong way but no problem for him - just move the goal posts. You mention fc games as the criteria and then count Duminy's white ball experience to exclude him. And you talk about bad faith - hilarious. Keep Duminy. I don't mind throwing you a bone. The others I mentioned are good enough (I find it amusing you tried to corral Sobers as too distant just to avoid the embarrassment). Now try these - Charlie Griffith, Aubrey Faulkner and Malcolm Marshall (who may be on repeat but he's so good he's worth another mention). I'll wait to see how you try to dissemble them away. But I'll give you more if you do.

My word you're a bit of a name caller aren't you? I know what your so called viewpoint is. I'm saying that in some cases the gamble is worth it and it doesn't matter the no. of games a debutant has played. That's where the difference of opinion lies and it's not dishonest to point out they picked him from the fc set up and an international match. He provided the evidence and the need was pressing and they gambled accordingly.

Duminy, as far as I can tell from a cursory look on crapinfo, made his First Class debut in this game back in February 2002. That's not exactly shortly before December 2008. Honestly I was genuinely astonished that you even mentioned him in the first place, whatever that list is that you said you were looking at earlier, it's clearly got some major issues

And as for citing Aubrey Faulkner, a man who literally made his Test debut over 119 years ago, that's being wilfully obtuse now. Not so much the goalposts being moved so much as you kicking one out into the adjacent carpark and then running around like a maniac with your shirt over your head.

 

[SeamUp]

Duminy, as far as I can tell from a cursory look on crapinfo, made his First Class debut in this game back in February 2002. That's not exactly shortly before December 2008. Honestly I was genuinely astonished that you even mentioned him in the first place, whatever that list is that you said you were looking at earlier, it's clearly got some major issues

And as for citing Aubrey Faulkner, a man who literally made his Test debut over 119 years ago, that's being wilfully obtuse now. Not so much the goalposts being moved so much as you kicking one out into the adjacent carpark and then running around like a maniac with your shirt over your head.

Duminy was scoring serious runs for a little while (debuted at 18 for Western Province or 19) but couldn't make it into our top 6 until bad luck for Prince. I think he remains one of our highest ever domestic averages. But like you say, he got ODI exposure and at least 5 seasons of FC before test debut.

I'm not against gut calls but there needs to be a strong hint of what one is capable of and they can replicate it at the top.

 

[Qlder]

Green rules out playing for WA in the last Shield round (or final)

 

[the big bambino]

Duminy, as far as I can tell from a cursory look on crapinfo, made his First Class debut in this game back in February 2002. That's not exactly shortly before December 2008. Honestly I was genuinely astonished that you even mentioned him in the first place, whatever that list is that you said you were looking at earlier, it's clearly got some major issues

And as for citing Aubrey Faulkner, a man who literally made his Test debut over 119 years ago, that's being wilfully obtuse now. Not so much the goalposts being moved so much as you kicking one out into the adjacent carpark and then running around like a maniac with your shirt over your head.

Shut up.

That you wouldn't normally do it doesn't mean you never would. I hope you're a little more flexible in issues other than cricket. I just can't rate such close mindedness. It's hardly something to brag about.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Shut up.

That you wouldn't normally do it doesn't mean you never would. I hope you're a little more flexible in issues other than cricket. I just can't rate such close mindedness. It's hardly something to brag about.

Seriously what are you even on about?

Citing players who were playing when the horse and cart was still a popular form of transport as relevant examples for the modern day is just so obviously and blatantly ridiculous, if you can't handle being called out on the sheer absurdity of that that's nobody's problem but your own.



Same reason I have zero interest in participating in ATG team debates and the like, so many things have changed over the long history of cricket so as to make comparing across such vastly different time periods utterly pointless

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Good to see Khawaja back playing Shield cricket

 

[the big bambino]

Seriously what are you even on about?

Citing players who were playing when the horse and cart was still a popular form of transport as relevant examples for the modern day is just so obviously and blatantly ridiculous, if you can't handle being called out on the sheer absurdity of that that's nobody's problem but your own.

My God you're dishonest. First up your "point" is a bromide to console yourself for being shown up. The practice has been consistent, if occasional or rare throughout cricket history. So you can't rely on your point, not that it was valid in the first place.

 

[Qlder]

With Khawaja back I'm surprised they dropped Lovell and played Hearne instead (so Clayton now has to move up to #3)