Steve Smith vs Sachin Tendulkar (after 205 innings)

[akilana]

i'd rather listen to some pundits like ponting than subs.

 

[subshakerz]

most of these complaints apply to sachin too. he didn't hit daddy hundreds.. never dominated a series where he showed he was cut above the rest. He's never reached the peak of ponting. he failed against most of the great bowlers he faced in the 90s while cashing in on the average attacks. He's over rated that his stans' go to defence is longevity. sachin batted half of the time on flat decks still lacked daddy hundreds and his SR is not all that impressive considering the flat decks he's used to batting. he also of

if you subject sachin to all these scrutiny, you'd realize sachin is india's kallis.

More daddy's than Kallis. More aggressive than him too. His peak 96 to 2002 was better than Pontings.

i'd rather listen to some pundits like ponting than subs.

Why always so bitter?

 

[akilana]

More daddy's than Kallis. More aggressive than him too. His peak 96 to 2002 was better than Pontings.


Why always so bitter?

None of them are memorable and only 2 of them resulted in wins.

 

[subshakerz]

None of them are memorable and only 2 of them resulted in wins.

The 241* was memorable.

 

[akilana]

The 241* was memorable.

for his fan boys.

 

[subshakerz]

for his fan boys.

No for Ponting who you rate so highly as a pundit.

 

[Coronis]

He is overrated in his era by some pundits as the 'greatest cricketer ever' since there wasn't an AR near his level to compare so he stands out and they look at his raw numbers.

He is overrated as a bat on CW that considers him an ATG, yet he lacked the ability to dominate attacks which is an important criteria to be an ATG bat (it's not just about aggressive scoring, also daddy tons where he was also lacking).

He is overrated as a bowler based on bowling load he took, minnow bashing and being that useful only on helpful pitches.

Your problem is you will never subject Kallis to the level of scrutiny you do for Imran for your own reasons. Have you ever gone into scorecards of Kallis innings or who he has gotten out, average/WPM, have you ever gone into county breakdown of his bowling, etc. You didn't even mention minnows until it was brought up.

Your analysis of Kallis is entirely superficial and general, probably because you want it to be.

Thankfully based on the latest poll, Kallis is being slightly downgraded here on CW which is overdue.

Yes.

Ponting, Tendulkar, Gilchrist, Hayden, Younis, Tendulkar, Jayawardene, Waugh (Waugh), Pieterson, Lara, Hussey, Sangakkara, Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag, Cook, Inzamam, Flower, Taylor, Williamson, Kohli

Most bowlers would kill to have a lineup like that. Especially an allrounder. Harder to think of great batsmen he faced but didn’t dismiss tbh. Probably Clarke his greatest foe.

 

[Coronis]

I often hear people talking about percentages of wickets by batting position. Kallis did most of his work in the middle order, i.e where the best bats play, having a higher percentage of wickets there than any “ATG” bowler. In fact he has a lower percentage of tail wickets than the vast majority of ATG bowlers (excluding McGrath, Marshall and Donald - lowest to highest). He wasn’t filling up his boots with cheap wickets. He was doing the hard yards, dismissing the best batsmen in the opposing team.

What a man.

 

[subshakerz]

Yes.

Ponting, Tendulkar, Gilchrist, Hayden, Younis, Tendulkar, Jayawardene, Waugh (Waugh), Pieterson, Lara, Hussey, Sangakkara, Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag, Cook, Inzamam, Flower, Taylor, Williamson, Kohli

Most bowlers would kill to have a lineup like that. Especially an allrounder. Harder to think of great batsmen he faced but didn’t dismiss tbh. Probably Clarke his greatest foe.

You are talking about 290 wickets obviously a number of them are going to be key bats since he is bowled more in the middle overs. It probably is the similar case with other part time bowlers or batting ARs.

I often hear people talking about percentages of wickets by batting position. Kallis did most of his work in the middle order, i.e where the best bats play, having a higher percentage of wickets there than any “ATG” bowler. In fact he has a lower percentage of tail wickets than the vast majority of ATG bowlers (excluding McGrath, Marshall and Donald - lowest to highest). He wasn’t filling up his boots with cheap wickets. He was doing the hard yards, dismissing the best batsmen in the opposing team.

What a man.

Comparing Kallis to regular bowlers itself doenst make sense. You aren't going to call on Kallis to clean a tail, you call on Kallis in the middle overs as with other fifth bowlers.

But the contentions against his bowling have been more about load. Like this revisionism about Kallis the AR is making him to seem something else he was in his playing days.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Was wondering how long this thread would take to get to Kallis vs Imran or whatever constant **** subz and kyear ruin every thread with
16/17 pages, not bad

 

[Rob Wesley]

Tendulkar was in a different league between 1992-2002 for 11 years. He averaged 60 during this period and performed against everyone and everywhere except Pakistan in Tests. The sample was 92 tests which unfortunately is not a lot because India were mid tier teams back then.

He did well vs Donald and Pollock, McGrath and Warne and also stood up well vs Ambrose and Walsh. He was quite dominant vs Sri Lanka, England and New Zealand too.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[capt_Luffy]

Tendulkar was in a different league between 1992-2002 for 11 years. He averaged 60 during this period and performed against everyone and everywhere except Pakistan in Tests. The sample was 92 tests which unfortunately is not a lot because India were mid tier teams back then.

He did well vs Donald and Pollock, McGrath and Warne and also stood up well vs Ambrose and Walsh. He was quite dominant vs Sri Lanka, England and New Zealand too.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Re Pakistan, yes his average is low but he literally played his Greatest innings Ever, an ATG one, in one of those 3 Tests. Can't hold them against him at all.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I agree Smith's peak was better but Narayana ffs leave the average pitch argument behind

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Tendulkar of course he started Test cricket at 16

 

[Rob Wesley]

Re Pakistan, yes his average is low but he literally played his Greatest innings Ever, an ATG one, in one of those 3 Tests. Can't hold them against him at all.

That knock ended in loss and that should hurt the Indian fans the most. He has two ducks vs Pakistan which the opposition celebrated famously and an embarrassing run out too. I feel Pakistan always got the better of him in Tests cricket whenever the contest between bat and ball was even.

 

[Rob Wesley]

@Rob Wesley @sayon basak @capt_Luffy

Difference between Sachin Tendulkar's prime vs Steve Smith prime.
Interestingly many people says Smith prime came during batting friendly era and sachin Tendulkar's prime during bowling friendly era but the reality is completely different.
View attachment 45258View attachment 45259View attachment 45260View attachment 45262

I do think Smith is the best test batter since Bradman. Reason is that Smith had dominant series in India and England where he has won his team games and produced big series with bat. Tendulkar although consistent didn’t really produced those 600-700 runs series ever in his career.
Additionally, he has a better average home or away both and over 10,000 test runs and hasn’t bashed minnows as much as SRT did.

Sachin only has longevity in his favour which I don’t think is enough to neutralise the above two points.

 

[Johan]

I do think Smith is the best test batter since Bradman. Reason is that Smith had dominant series in India and England where he has won his team games and produced big series with bat. Tendulkar although consistent didn’t really produced those 600-700 runs series ever in his career.
Additionally, he has a better average home or away both and over 10,000 test runs and hasn’t bashed minnows as much as SRT did.

Sachin only has longevity in his favour which I don’t think is enough to neutralise the above two points.

Hutton>

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Sachin averaging 60 for 18 years is hard to look past. Smith has only done it for 12 years so far so I’d still have Sachin above him. He’ll most likely be better than Viv and Lara by the end of his career if he’s not already though.

 

[Burgey]

I think anyone who hasn't had a cerebral event knows Smith is better than Tendulkar as things stand rn.

 

[Johan]

I think anyone who hasn't had a cerebral event knows Smith is better than Tendulkar as things stand rn.

Viv or Sachin burgey