Viv Richards vs Adam Gilchrist

[kyear2]

Viv and Lara are the only 2 ATGs in the modern era averaging 50+ with 60+ strike rates. Ponting got very close though. Barry might have done it as well over a long career but we’ll never know I guess.

That's the brilliance of each.

Barry did it for well over a decade as well.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Pant isn't a world class keeper and @capt_Luffy neither is Flower.

Much better bat. What kind of keeper he is arguable, and he definitely has an argument.

 

[Johan]

Much better bat. What kind of keeper he is arguable, and he definitely has an argument.

is he really much better than Gilly

 

[capt_Luffy]

is he really much better than Gilly

Imo Yes

 

[kyear2]

Much better bat. What kind of keeper he is arguable, and he definitely has an argument.

He's not great, he's not world class.

So what is he, decent?

The very least you can be to be in any argument is world class, and that he definitely wasn't.

 

[capt_Luffy]

He's not great, he's not world class.

So what is he, decent?

The very least you can be to be in any argument is world class, and that he definitely wasn't.

Been there, done that. I just don't have enough material to rate his keeping properly.

 

[kyear2]

Been there, done that. I just don't have enough material to rate his keeping properly.

So if you can't rate his keeping, how is he in the discussion.

It's more than half the job.

 

[capt_Luffy]

So if you can't rate his keeping, how is he in the discussion.

It's more than half the job.

I can rate Ames' and Knott's and Walcott's and Evans' keeping over a guess work as well. Didn't saw any of them play and the footage is meagre.

 

[kyear2]

I can rate Ames' and Knott's and Walcott's and Evans' keeping over a guess work as well. Didn't saw any of them play and the footage is meagre.

But there's lots of writing on the keeping of all of them.

For Flower it's negative or non existent. Not to mention the incredible amount of byes that I referenced last year.

Well below par.

 

[capt_Luffy]

But there's lots of writing on the keeping of all of them.

For Flower it's negative or non existent. Not to mention the incredible amount of byes that I referenced last year.

Well below par.

Writings sadly, for keeping is a prominent source. Sadly, a secondary one.

Hardly negative, which would have given me something to work with. And I would want to see how many byes most top class keepers will concede keeping so long (Dr Wolverine posted those stats of Flower keeping MUCH longer than say Gilchrist each innings) to those Zim bowlers. Keeping stats, sadly, are ****.

 

[kyear2]

Writings sadly, for keeping is a prominent source. Sadly, a secondary one.

Hardly negative, which would have given me something to work with. And I would want to see how many byes most top class keepers will concede keeping so long (Dr Wolverine posted those stats of Flower keeping MUCH longer than say Gilchrist each innings) to those Zim bowlers. Keeping stats, sadly, are ****.

Stats will tell us what we want, unless it's not what we want to see

 

[subshakerz]

And hopefully this is the last that we'll see of this argument.

@subshakerz

What argument?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Stats will tell us what we want, unless it's not what we want to see

@Coronis


No seriously, who tf thinks wking stats are useful???

 

[subshakerz]

Wonder what @Coronis is laughing at.

By what metric is Marshall not an automatic. How does the best fast bowler who can bat not make any AT World XI?

Bat deep, he qualifies. Best all out attack, he makes it. Any combination of the above, he makes it.

By attributes and skill set, he makes it. By ability to dominate in any and all locales and conditions, he makes it.

By any metric he's the 3rd name on the list. Your batsman, all rounder and spear head.

Being automatic means there isn't any remote competition. The only automatics are Sobers and Bradman and possibly Gilly. Everyone else is arguable.

 

[subshakerz]

What's you argument against Marshall though?

You could have an attack of McGrath, Hadlee and Steyn/Imran for reverse. Argument is the first two are better with the new ball and the the third option with the old ball.

 

[Bolo.]

Viv and Lara are the only 2 ATGs in the modern era averaging 50+ with 60+ strike rates. Ponting got very close though. Barry might have done it as well over a long career but we’ll never know I guess.

What is the relevance of the 60+ SR?

Would you rate someone like AB higher if he had never done his blockathons etc.? He would have finished his career with a 60+ SR if it was better for the team. But it wasn't.

 

[smash84]

What is the relevance of the 60+ SR?

Would you rate someone like AB higher if he had never done his blockathons etc.? He would have finished his career with a 60+ SR if it was better for the team. But it wasn't.

I don't quite understand the obsession with SRs. There are 5 days in a test match and enough overs to bowl sides out. Would a SR of 60 instead of 50 make a huge difference?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Wonder what @Coronis is laughing at.

By what metric is Marshall not an automatic. How does the best fast bowler who can bat not make any AT World XI?

Bat deep, he qualifies. Best all out attack, he makes it. Any combination of the above, he makes it.

By attributes and skill set, he makes it. By ability to dominate in any and all locales and conditions, he makes it.

By any metric he's the 3rd name on the list. Your batsman, all rounder and spear head.

Even if you think Viv is a better cricketer, Gilchrist is a more nailed on pick for an ATG XI surely? He's way further ahead of whoever the second best keeper bat is than Marshall is ahead of the rest/ sobers ahead of Kallis... Let alone viv who has 4-5 batsmen who have legitimate claims to get a middle order spot. He's as close to a unanimous ATG xi pick as it gets.

 

[sayon basak]

I don't quite understand the obsession with SRs. There are 5 days in a test match and enough overs to bowl sides out. Would a SR of 60 instead of 50 make a huge difference?

And it's not that high S/R is always destined to be helpful. There will be certain situations in a match where playing slowly to save the match will be the right thing to do.

 

[kyear2]

@Coronis


No seriously, who tf thinks wking stats are useful???

Generally not. But when you see so many more byes than you see for other keepers. And the two times I saw 0 and low single figures, it was for another keeper who was filling in, it's clear as **** that he wasn't good.