sayon basak
International Captain
This is just a troll.
-
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Who is the best since Bradman?
- Thread starter Narayana
- Start date
You aren't, really
Have you seen a test match, where the ball seaming like hell for around 50-60 overs.
I am sure, you haven't, else you would not have dare to say like this.
sayon basak
International Captain
One taking a Reddit post as authoritative calls others blind.
Johan
International Vice-Captain
I'm literally English, I've no emotional attachment to Sachin.
also, you brought Virat up
sayon basak
International Captain
So you're claiming that didn't ever happen before this era? Are you really telling me that this days batters are doing a good job?
capt_Luffy
International Coach
Johan
International Vice-Captain
@capt_Luffy hey, luffy, do you think I am a blind Sachin fan?
Measuring batting averages effectively
A stats analysis to determine effective batting averages in the 2000s by measuring bowling quality faced
www.google.com
Coronis
International Coach
The **** is going on with this site
Here is a plot of overall bowling average (essentially the same as batting average, just with no balls and wides included) by year from 1990 onwards .
the seven years from 2018 to 2024 has had the lowest bowling average for a seven year span going all the way back to 1956-1962.
The fact that this recent decline (and indeed the increase in the 2000s) is a very distinct shift, rather than a gradual decline though should immediately indicate that there's a good chance that we're not just looking at an overall decline in batting standards.
If batting standards are getting worse, the average against spin outside of India should have dropped along with the pace average and it hasn't whatsoever. What has changed though is the effectiveness of seam bowling for three main reasons:
1- the wobble ball
2- kookaburra reinforcing their seam since 2020
3-Boards making more results-oriented pitches, perhaps because of the WTC.
Most of you will know about the wobble ball by now, but if not, it's deliberately holding the ball with a wide-fingered grip with seam cantered and therefore sending the ball down with the seam wobbling, meaning that the ball can move either way off the seam depending on the position the seam happens to be when the ball pitches. This is a very different technique to the one old-school seam bowlers (e.g. McGrath) would use where the goal was a bolt upright seam position.
Here is an article with much more details about it.
According to Widen cricket
This type of delivery has gone from being almost unknown before 2010 to being the stock ball of probably the majority of seam bowlers in tests nowadays.As a result, the amount of swing bowlers are getting on average has significantly decreased (since the goal of the wobble ball isn't to swing the ball) while the amount of seam movement has gone up (see that article for a source), and that's a bad thing for batters.
As as per the article, "Against a ball that moves 1.5 degrees or more in the air, batters, overall, average 26.70. But against balls that move off the pitch at least 0.75 degrees, only half the threshold for swing, the average hovers around 20".
These trends cannot be explained purely by a decline in batting performance.
the seven years from 2018 to 2024 has had the lowest bowling average for a seven year span going all the way back to 1956-1962.
The fact that this recent decline (and indeed the increase in the 2000s) is a very distinct shift, rather than a gradual decline though should immediately indicate that there's a good chance that we're not just looking at an overall decline in batting standards.
If batting standards are getting worse, the average against spin outside of India should have dropped along with the pace average and it hasn't whatsoever. What has changed though is the effectiveness of seam bowling for three main reasons:
1- the wobble ball
2- kookaburra reinforcing their seam since 2020
3-Boards making more results-oriented pitches, perhaps because of the WTC.
Most of you will know about the wobble ball by now, but if not, it's deliberately holding the ball with a wide-fingered grip with seam cantered and therefore sending the ball down with the seam wobbling, meaning that the ball can move either way off the seam depending on the position the seam happens to be when the ball pitches. This is a very different technique to the one old-school seam bowlers (e.g. McGrath) would use where the goal was a bolt upright seam position.
Here is an article with much more details about it.
According to Widen cricket
This type of delivery has gone from being almost unknown before 2010 to being the stock ball of probably the majority of seam bowlers in tests nowadays.As a result, the amount of swing bowlers are getting on average has significantly decreased (since the goal of the wobble ball isn't to swing the ball) while the amount of seam movement has gone up (see that article for a source), and that's a bad thing for batters.
As as per the article, "Against a ball that moves 1.5 degrees or more in the air, batters, overall, average 26.70. But against balls that move off the pitch at least 0.75 degrees, only half the threshold for swing, the average hovers around 20".
These trends cannot be explained purely by a decline in batting performance.
Attachments
shortpitched713
International Captain
Neither of these 2 are the answer, when one Sir Garfield Sobers had the batting record he did.
I am sure you are,
Else no one with 2 eyes will peak sachin ahead of Steve Smith.
Here is a plot of overall bowling average (essentially the same as batting average, just with no balls and wides included) by year from 1990 onwards .
the seven years from 2018 to 2024 has had the lowest bowling average for a seven year span going all the way back to 1956-1962.
The fact that this recent decline (and indeed the increase in the 2000s) is a very distinct shift, rather than a gradual decline though should immediately indicate that there's a good chance that we're not just looking at an overall decline in batting standards.
If batting standards are getting worse, the average against spin outside of India should have dropped along with the pace average and it hasn't whatsoever. What has changed though is the effectiveness of seam bowling for three main reasons:
1- the wobble ball
2- kookaburra reinforcing their seam since 2020
3-Boards making more results-oriented pitches, perhaps because of the WTC.
Most of you will know about the wobble ball by now, but if not, it's deliberately holding the ball with a wide-fingered grip with seam cantered and therefore sending the ball down with the seam wobbling, meaning that the ball can move either way off the seam depending on the position the seam happens to be when the ball pitches. This is a very different technique to the one old-school seam bowlers (e.g. McGrath) would use where the goal was a bolt upright seam position.
Here is an article with much more details about it.
According to Widen cricket
This type of delivery has gone from being almost unknown before 2010 to being the stock ball of probably the majority of seam bowlers in tests nowadays.As a result, the amount of swing bowlers are getting on average has significantly decreased (since the goal of the wobble ball isn't to swing the ball) while the amount of seam movement has gone up (see that article for a source), and that's a bad thing for batters.
As as per the article, "Against a ball that moves 1.5 degrees or more in the air, batters, overall, average 26.70. But against balls that move off the pitch at least 0.75 degrees, only half the threshold for swing, the average hovers around 20".
These trends cannot be explained purely by a decline in batting performance.
Attachments
Sobers can be said better than tendulkar though but not Smith.
Johan
International Vice-Captain
Let's not, Sobers>Smith
As a cricketer he is best since Bradman,
He is often termed as the greatest cricketer.
DrWolverine
State Captain
Scoring centuries against great pacer(100+ wickets and average less than 25)
Hutton
1. 1947 - Miller & Lindwall
2. 1951 - Miller & Lindwall
3. 1953 - Lindwall, Miller & Davidson
Sunil Gavaskar
1. 1976 - Andy Roberts & Michael Holding
2. 1976 - Michael Holding
3. 1976 - Richard Hadlee(young)
4. 1978 - Imran Khan
5. 1978 - Imran Khan
6. 1980 - Imran Khan
7. 1983 - Imran Khan
8. 1983 - Roberts, Holding, Marshall & Garner
9. 1983 - Marshall & Holding
10. 1983 - Marshall & Holding
Sachin Tendulkar
1. 1992 - Donald
2. 1994 - Courtney Walsh
3. 1997 - Donald & Pollock
4. 1999 - Glen McGrath
5. 1999 - Akram & Waqar
6. 2001 - Glen McGrath
7. 2001 - Shaun Pollock
8. 2004 - Shoaib Akhtar
9. 2010 - Dale Steyn
10. 2010 - Dale Steyn
11. 2010 - Dale Steyn
Brian Lara
1. 1997 - McGrath
2. 1999 - McGrath
3. 1999 - McGrath
4. 1999 - McGrath
5. 2000 - McGrath
6. 2003 - Pollock
7. 2003 - Pollock
8. 2005 - McGrath
To say Hutton did not statpad unlike Gavaskar, Sachin or Lara is a joke.
Hutton never faced bowlers of the calibre of Gavaskar, Richards, Sachin or Lara.
shortpitched713
International Captain
Smith is still playing, and even accounting fir hard batting conditions his career is on a downward path.
I think he will not end up better than Sobers unless he has massive career resurrection.
I think he will not end up better than Sobers unless he has massive career resurrection.
DrWolverine
State Captain
Because I am lazy to type the names of countries
DrWolverine
State Captain
Why?
Except the longevity argument, Smith is just as good if not better than Sobers as a batsman