Wasim Akram vs Dennis Lillee

[sayon basak]

Ok are you going to agree that Lillee is an ATG if he had a bowling average of 40.

Here's another question.

Is Lohmann the greatest bowler ever?

 

[Van_Sri]

Here's another question.

Is Lohmann the greatest bowler ever?

Read my previous comment

 

[Van_Sri]

For Example : Wasim when he hit 257 against Zimbabwe he didn’t bowl in the 2nd innings due to fatigue this might effect his statistics. Here I am judging both of them purely as a Test Match Bowlers. But if you bring his batting abilities and his experience of bowling in sub continent. The conclusions will differ.

 

[Qlder]

Ok are you going to agree that Lillee is an ATG if he had a bowling average of 40.

See that's just silly, making up a number to justify stats. As I said, I rate Lillee by what I saw, so if your fake Lillee averaged 40 opening the bowling then I'm sure I wouldn't rate him as he would have been a crap bowler

 

[Van_Sri]

See that's just silly, making up a number to justify stats. As I said, I rate Lillee by what I saw, so if your fake Lillee averaged 40 opening the bowling then I'm sure I wouldn't rate him as he would have been a crap bowler

You are trying to defend your perception. Wasim had Waqar who was exceptional from 1990-1995 and Lillee had Thompson, Waqar was better than Thompson. So may be Lillee’s better stats in the top order was due to a weak bowling partner compared to Wasim.

 

[Qlder]

You are trying to defend your perception. Wasim had Waqar who was exceptional from 1990-1995 and Lillee had Thompson, Waqar was better than Thompson. So may be Lillee’s better stats in the top order was due to a weak bowling partner compared to Wasim.

I'm not trying to defend my perception. I'm telling you I think other than overall records, or records during a specific period (eg. peak or decline) digging deep into stats is too easy to manipulate and/or just over thinking it.

The only meaningful dig deep stat I can think of is how many wkts bowled, lbw, caught behind and caught in slips. Not meaningful for an overall rating but interesting

It would be hilarious if Akram had more catches behind the wicket (keeper + slips) than Lillee giving all the "bad fielding" excuses for why he only took 3.98 WPM compared to Lillee's 5.08 WPM

 

[Johan]

He was, in much more suitable conditions and with better support fielders, to still end up with a lower overall average......

didn't have the bottlecaps amp tho

 

[capt_Luffy]

didn't have the bottlecaps amp tho

I don't think bottlecaps were really used in Tests and if they were, the reason only Imran was successful with them talks as well

(I will pretend I never said these things when I punch Imran due to Subz/a bowler I rate higher comes (I mean, Imran's home stats would be crazy given pitch bar cheating). But yeah, I do find the bottlecaps overplayed. Don't think they were used in Tests, except maybe in 83 India, when they literally carried the ball to dressing room.)

 

[Johan]

I don't think bottlecaps were really used in Tests and if they were, the reason only Imran was successful with them talks as well

(I will pretend I never said these things when I punch Imran due to Subz/a bowler I rate higher comes (I mean, Imran's home stats would be crazy given pitch bar cheating). But yeah, I do find the bottlecaps overplayed. Don't think they were used in Tests, except maybe in 83 India, when they literally carried the ball to dressing room.)

I think they were used frequently in pak tbh, be it bottlecaps, or sandpapers, or just anything that gets the job done, away I think they didn't do it cuz they'd get caught easier.

 

[sayon basak]

I don't think bottlecaps were really used in Tests and if they were, the reason only Imran was successful with them talks as well

(I will pretend I never said these things when I punch Imran due to Subz/a bowler I rate higher comes (I mean, Imran's home stats would be crazy given pitch bar cheating). But yeah, I do find the bottlecaps overplayed. Don't think they were used in Tests, except maybe in 83 India, when they literally carried the ball to dressing room.)

Use of the 1st bracket inside another 1st bracket in a Convo definitely deserves some attention.

 

[Van_Sri]

I'm not trying to defend my perception. I'm telling you I think other than overall records, or records during a specific period (eg. peak or decline) digging deep into stats is too easy to manipulate and/or just over thinking it.

The only meaningful dig deep stat I can think of is how many wkts bowled, lbw, caught behind and caught in slips. Not meaningful for an overall rating but interesting

I am not trying to manipulate these pure statistics. You can do it with both these players and you will come up with same numbers. There is no Statistics that explains complete picture of these bowlers.

 

[Van_Sri]

They don't show the full story either.

I never said that

 

[subshakerz]

But the 6 Wickets he took in Pakistan and Sri Lanka are mostly top order wickets.

Samples this small are meaningless

 

[subshakerz]

I think they were used frequently in pak tbh, be it bottlecaps, or sandpapers, or just anything that gets the job done, away I think they didn't do it cuz they'd get caught easier.

The only series I think they were definitely used was against NZ in 1990. Imran didn't play in that though.

Otherwise was mostly scratching, roughing along the square and seam lifting.

 

[Van_Sri]

Samples this small are meaningless

I gave already a huge sample

 

[Migara]

You are trying to defend your perception. Wasim had Waqar who was exceptional from 1990-1995 and Lillee had Thompson, Waqar was better than Thompson. So may be Lillee’s better stats in the top order was due to a weak bowling partner compared to Wasim.

And not to mention Wasim had Abdul Qadir, Mushtaq Ahmed and Saqlain Mushtaq bowling with old ball. Lillee had no one close to that brilliance with the ball when it comes to spin.

 

[Migara]

Samples this small are meaningless

Still he should have annihilated Sri Lanka who were playing only their third test. He was not even threatening on a lively Asgiriya pitch.

Fun stat, Vaas has taken 56 wickets in 14 matches at Asgiriya at 20.1. That is a proper fast bowling paradise.

 

[Van_Sri]

And not to mention Wasim had Abdul Qadir, Mushtaq Ahmed and Saqlain Mushtaq bowling with old ball. Lillee had no one close to that brilliance with the ball when it comes to spin.

This is a good point. Have to Agree.

 

[Van_Sri]

Still he should have annihilated Sri Lanka who were playing only their third test. He was not even threatening on a lively Asgiriya pitch.

Fun stat, Vaas has taken 56 wickets in 14 matches at Asgiriya at 20.1. That is a proper fast bowling paradise.

It was a Spin bowlers pitch in Sri Lanka just saw the details of the match and Lillee in fact did a good job in that match. He dismissed 2 openers and a No 3 Batsmen which no other Australian pace bowler could do in that match and of course Sri Lankan bowlers were hammered by Australians in that match.

 

[Migara]

It was a Spin bowlers pitch in Sri Lanka just saw the details of the match and Lillee in fact did a good job in that match.

Asgiriya is never a spin bowlers pitch. For one and half days it swings.

Sri Lanka played two pacemen and Ranatunga who was fast medium when he was 19.