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Worst batsman with a 50 average

sayon basak

sayon basak

International Captain
capt_Luffy said:
Bottom 5 with 5000+ runs imo (should had the criteria in place):

Michael Hussey - 76
Mohammad Yousuf - 69 (nice)
Matthew Hayden - 51
Shivnarine Chanderpaul - 49
Andy Flower - 39


Flower is too good to be here, but the bowler's had it WAY rougher.
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Umm you should definitely swap Chanderpaul and Hayden. Who comes between them?
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Coach
BazBall21 said:
Flower was definitely high quality and the goat from the Ban/Zim tier imo but I don't think he's proven enough v good pace attacks to rank above players like Kohli and Boycott. Obviously it is a shame and unfair that he didn't get the same opportunities but can't judge on hypotheticals. Hayden opened in all 184 innings, was a beast in the type of conditions Flower excelled in, and Chanderpaul has extreme longevity to go with output that Flower doesn't overwhelm.
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Yeah can understand the reasoning. For me, Flower was a beast in a team where the 2nd best batter averaged 28. He led his rather mid team to a number of Great wins and draws. And all these while keeping wickets for long overs. I will prefer him to selfish hiders like Chanders and FTBs like Hayden
 
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BazBall21

BazBall21

International Captain
capt_Luffy said:
Yeah can understand the reasoning. For me, Flower was a beast in a team where the 2nd best batter averaged 28. He led his rather mid team to a number of Great wins and draws. And all these while keeping wickets for long overs. I will prefer him to selfish hiders like Chanders and FTBs like Hayden
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capt_Luffy said:
Yeah can understand the reasoning. For me, Flower was a beast in a team where the 2nd best batter averaged 28. He led his rather mid team to a number of Great wins and draws. And all these while keeping wickets for long overs. I will prefer him to selfish hiders like Chanders and FTBs like Hayden
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That is a major testament to his character but I think Chanderpaul could do a similar job for Zimbabwe (without the wicket keeping of course) and had an extremely long career. Batting on a lot of slow flat pitches did help him with longevity to an extent.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Coach
BazBall21 said:
That is a major testament to his character but I think Chanderpaul could do a similar job for Zimbabwe (without the wicket keeping of course) and had an extremely long career. Batting on a lot of slow flat pitches did help him with longevity to an extent.
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Hmmm...... Flower had the additional keeping load and I frankly don't think Chanderpaul would had been as selfless to do that (like WI themselves had a comparable line-up for the 2nd half of his career). Also like, it wasn't really his fault that he had to retire early, when in Great form (and the build up was fantastic as well. Can't think of a better reason to).
 
BazBall21

BazBall21

International Captain
capt_Luffy said:
Hmmm...... Flower had the additional keeping load and I frankly don't think Chanderpaul would had been as selfless to do that (like WI themselves had a comparable line-up for the 2nd half of his career). Also like, it wasn't really his fault that he had to retire early, when in Great form (and the build up was fantastic as well. Can't think of a better reason to).
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Wicket keeping may not have been within Chandedpaul's skillset. Of course, that is a good argument for Flower being a better cricketer even if he wasn't a great keeper by all accounts. Secondary skillset which Chanderpaul lacks. Flower of course wasn't remotely at fault for retiring early but Chanderpaul still had an extremely long career and longevity is a test but he benefitted from slow flat pitches.

Hayden was a FTB outside Asia but not in Asia which counts for something.
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
capt_Luffy said:
Hmmm...... Flower had the additional keeping load and I frankly don't think Chanderpaul would had been as selfless to do that (like WI themselves had a comparable line-up for the 2nd half of his career). Also like, it wasn't really his fault that he had to retire early, when in Great form (and the build up was fantastic as well. Can't think of a better reason to).
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He’d already started to decline before that.
 
BazBall21

BazBall21

International Captain
Coronis said:
He’d already started to decline before that.
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Yeah and he was 34 so it's plausible he would have continued to deteriorate. Chanderpaul ploughed on and on. There's no guarantee Flower could have emulated that with the same efficiency. Better cricketer is very debatable because of Flower's second skill set even if he was a pretty ordinary keeper but I think Chanderpaul definitely has a stronger batting legacy.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Coach
BazBall21 said:
Yeah and he was 34 so it's plausible he would have continued to deteriorate. Chanderpaul ploughed on and on. There's no guarantee Flower could have emulated that with the same efficiency. Better cricketer is very debatable because of Flower's second skill set even if he was a pretty ordinary keeper but I think Chanderpaul definitely has a stronger batting legacy.
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All I can say is, WIndian fans don't particularly seem to rate his 'legacy' that highly. They instead insists extensively that he was extremely selfish, as well as that he gave the strike to tailenders to boost his average. His RPI is just 42!! I would take Flower over him without a doubt just as a batsman.
 
Johan

Johan

International Vice-Captain
capt_Luffy said:
All I can say is, WIndian fans don't particularly seem to rate his 'legacy' that highly. They instead insists extensively that he was extremely selfish, as well as that he gave the strike to tailenders to boost his average. His RPI is just 42!! I would take Flower over him without a doubt just as a batsman.
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Leans in and whispers in his ear "so Is Allan Border's."
 
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