Worst batsman with a 50 average

[DrWolverine]

Of course, that is a good argument for Flower being a better cricketer even if he wasn't a great keeper by all accounts.

Andy Flower being the only wicketkeeper to average 50+ in the history of the sport will perhaps make him better but Shiv is the more accomplished cricketer - 164 Tests. 11867 runs @ 51 and 30 centuries is a great feat regardless of how “selfish” he is.

 

[BazBall21]

All I can say is, WIndian fans don't particularly seem to rate his 'legacy' that highly. They instead insists extensively that he was extremely selfish, as well as that he gave the strike to tailenders to boost his average. His RPI is just 42!! I would take Flower over him without a doubt just as a batsman.

Flower and Chanderpaul have the same RPI to be fair and Chanderpaul had twice as long a career.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

It's a shame Goodwin and Houghton didn't play more tests with Flower. They could've formed the spine of a really good team.

Houghton probably played about as many Tests as could have been reasonably expected though. He was already fairly old by the time Zimbabwe entered Test cricket

 

[capt_Luffy]

Flower and Chanderpaul have the same RPI to be fair and Chanderpaul had twice as long a career.

Flower has the tougher Era as well, though he excelled in the 2000s, he was pretty good in the 90s as well.

 

[Coronis]

Flower has the tougher Era as well, though he excelled in the 2000s, he was pretty good in the 90s as well.

Apparently you forget Shiv played in the 90’s too. Averaged 40 over a decent sample size.

 

[sayon basak]

Leans in and whispers in his ear "so Is Allan Border's."

But did AB gave the strike to the tail-enders to boost his average? Don't think so.

 

[Johan]

But did AB gave the strike to the tail-enders to boost his average? Don't think so.

No shot, as far as I know he was just defensive and would often outbat the whole team, Boycott iirc has a low RPI due to the same reason.

 

[BazBall21]

Flower has the tougher Era as well, though he excelled in the 2000s, he was pretty good in the 90s as well.

This obviously isn't his fault, but Flower didn't face the gun attacks frequently and rarely played outside Asia away from home so tougher era is a bit of a null point. I accept though that lots of slow and flat pitches gave Chanderpaul's longevity a helping hand.

 

[BazBall21]

No shot, as far as I know he was just defensive and would often outbat the whole team, Boycott iirc has a low RPI due to the same reason.

Yeah GB has a lot of not outs for an openers. Him and Gooch have almost the same RPI.

 

[BazBall21]

Gooch, Kohli, Lara etc the kings of saying no to red ink.

 

[capt_Luffy]

This obviously isn't his fault, but Flower didn't face the gun attacks frequently and rarely played outside Asia away from home so tougher era is a bit of a null point. I accept though that lots of slow and flat pitches gave Chanderpaul's longevity a helping hand.

I think I simply can summarise my view with, Flower carried a mid Zimbabwean batting on his back, in a way that WI fans complains Chanders just wasn't interested in to do over personal record.

 

[sayon basak]

No shot, as far as I know he was just defensive and would often outbat the whole team, Boycott iirc has a low RPI due to the same reason.

I think anybody who rates Chanderpaul ahead of Graeme Smith and Matthew Hayden should be infracted.
@capt_Luffy

 

[sayon basak]

@capt_Luffy don't be sad. Repent from your sinful way, and you shall be accepted.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Gooch, Kohli, Lara etc the kings of saying no to red ink.

Kohli wouldn't be able to red ink even if he wanted to. Maybe he's secretly been wanting to Chanders it up all these years and failing.

 

[Johan]

I think anybody who rates Chanderpaul ahead of Graeme Smith and Matthew Hayden should be infracted.
@capt_Luffy

lol no shot, I still remember vividly when Chanders was batting at around 130 in lords I think and he made the #11 Pedro Collins play 50+ deliveries who got out.

 

[sayon basak]

lol no shot, I still remember vividly when Chanders was batting at around 130 in lords I think and he made the #11 Pedro Collins play 50+ deliveries who got out.

That's just pure evil.

 

[BazBall21]

I think I simply can't summarise my view with, Flower carried a mid Zimbabwean batting on his back, in a way that WI fans complains Chanders just wasn't interested in to do over personal record.

Chanderpaul's average does oversell him a bit (I honestly believe Gary Kirsten could have had a similar career if he batted 5&6 with those dull pitches at home throughout the 2000s) and he was definitely excessively selfish towards the end.

I guess he was fed up with the setup by then which I can sympathise with after so many years of efficient toil but there were still some comical instances like taking a single off the first ball of the last over of the day with a tailender at the other end. Flower takes points for shouldering wicket keeping workload while carrying a depressing batting lineup and being a marvellous player of spin, but I don't think 90s tax truly applies to him.

 

[Johan]

Yousuf is worse.

tbh, don't really think he was.

His ability to go big was very useful, can think of some match winning knocks from him against us, his 223 in Lahore coming in at 12-2 and his 203 at Lords from 68-4 when England made 530 runs are some of the knocks I think when I hear his name, a lot of his big knocks seem to come from 25-2, 30-3, 70-4 type situations too.

@BazBall21 @sayon basak Your views on Yousuf vs Chanders?

 

[capt_Luffy]

So @sayon basak you are using your own picture as the pfp!!!

 

[Johan]

So @sayon basak you are using your own picture as the pfp!!!

choose your words wisely, Monkeys vs Kittens a mismatch in the prior's favour.