capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Wrong math is wrong math
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Is Jasprit Bumrah an ATG test bowler?
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
Swamp Witch Hattie
School Boy/Girl Captain
Swamp Witch Hattie
School Boy/Girl Captain
Swamp Witch Hattie
School Boy/Girl Captain
I'll tell you what's wrong. Dead wrong. Calling it "math" rather than "maths"! ;-)
Coronis
International Coach
Can’t believe I just saw a non-American do this. Opinion of user has dropped significantly.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Ooh that mighty NZ lineup. They really screwed him.
humaiyun.hibas
Cricket Spectator
NZ are very strong at playing medium paced swing bowlers. It explains their success vs Bumrah.
humaiyun.hibas
Cricket Spectator
Dibbly dobblers always get smashed by NZ.
NZ is the true test of whether a pace bowler really bends his back and hits the deck hard, or whether a pace bowler is overly reliant on swing and full length deliveries.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
You can't be a true one without failing it. See Sobers, Garry.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
Both NZ and ATG are subjective concepts. Neither exists in real world.
kyear2
International Coach
Well I certainly don't consider Croft or Roberts to be ATGs.
And don't rate Barnes with modern cricketers.
And while I do rate Bumrah an ATG, no way is he currently close to the last couple of names you called.
kyear2
International Coach
Which ****s, sorry commentators?
Swamp Witch Hattie
School Boy/Girl Captain
Bumrah tried bending his back once, got spasms, and had to settle for 32 wickets, behind Hadlee's 33. NZers always seem to get the better of this man!
The situation reminded me of when Peter Snell defeated Roger Moens in the 800 metres to win the gold medal at the 1960 Rome Olympics:
I think it may be all 3 format bowlers comment. For example, Clarke
But that's not really a bold call. He doesn't have good competition for all formats since 2007.
Having said that no point in using best ever tag for 18 years of history even if it's for all 3 formats. That's gymnastic with words. May after 20-25 more years, it's fine to use such tags. Anyway, not sure if we will have 3 formats after 20-25 years.
Swamp Witch Hattie
School Boy/Girl Captain
Since debuting in Tests in January 2018, Bumrah's bowling average does stand out like a shining light. It's better than anybody else's in this time frame (min. 100 wickets) by nearly 2.5 runs (Rabada comes closest, 2.46 runs worse):
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
He didn't lose the final. Jamieson won it.
Thats good but away is more impressive. Rabada's bulk of cheap wickets have come at home. I would like him to do better in Ind/Pak.
Away 100 wickets minimum against non-minnows - the last 10 years
Rabada should try to move up in this list by getting a good series in India and Pak.
The_CricketUmpire
First Class Debutant
Test+ODI+T20I Combined:
443 wickets at an average of 20.46.
Thats serious numbers right there. He's well on his way to All Time Great status. In terms of all formats combined he might be an All Time Great. But purely a Test cricket All Time Great, for me...not there yet.
For me, an ATG in longer and shorter formats both. I have seen enough against top oppositions of his era and that too when playing away in tests. That's harder for bowlers and batsmen both. I saw him enough in tournaments. I don't follow shorter formats outside of tounaments. There comes a point where you say, with quality and longevity, it's enough to go down as one of the greats. He has passe that point for me. Understandbly it may be different benchmark for different fans. As some one said in this thread, there is no factual ATG level. It's all subjective.
Not enough to be a contender for the top 5-7 spots yet in the test format. 50-70 more wickets against top sides then that discussion can take place, not now.
Many fans don't account for the fact that he is not going to play against Pakistan. One less opponent. Also, if you are a top class bowler in all 3 formats then having a yardstick of 300-400 tests wickets is too harsh. In 3 format era, anyone who is a top class in all 3 as a strike bowler is not going to play as many as some test specialists played in older era. Some players did play lots of games in both formats and maintained very high standards, but that list a short one.
Sure, some longevity is needed. Some one shared earlier here that for all asian pacers, he is among the top 3 pacers in number of wickets outside of Asia. So not much to see in longevity outside Asia for him. At home he has lower number of wixkets. I think 40-50 wickets at avg of 17. Get another 50-60 at home. He is avearging 9-12 against BD/WI/Zim, but he has not played much against those teams and not likely to play much due to all this tier talk. Otherwise cheap wickets against them can boost volume, but I don't think it will make him a greater bowler. That's just volume and it may help some fans who want to see volume.
Realistically, he will play majority of games against the top 4-5 test sides of his era.
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