Is Jasprit Bumrah an ATG test bowler?

[Swamp Witch Hattie]

Bumrah is now 16th equal on the historical ICC Test bowling ratings. Hadlee might have pipped him with 33 > 32 but I fear Paddles' 909 will soon be overtaken by Bumrah!

from https://www.relianceiccrankings.com/alltime/test/bowling/:





Lillee is very low at 41 with 884 points (possibly due to inactivity/WSC?) while Wasim is languishing at 80 with just 830 points (and never rose above #2 in the rankings).

 

[capt_Luffy]

Bumrah is now 16th equal on the historical ICC Test bowling ratings. Hadlee might have pipped him with 33 > 32 but I fear Paddles' 909 will soon be overtaken by Bumrah!

from https://www.relianceiccrankings.com/alltime/test/bowling/:

View attachment 44239

View attachment 44240

Lillee is very low at 41 with 884 points (possibly due to inactivity/WSC?) while Wasim is languishing at 80 with just 830 points (and never rose above #2 in the rankings).

Go Bumrah!!

(ICC Rankings are still **** though)

 

[OverratedSanity]

Bumrah is now 16th equal on the historical ICC Test bowling ratings. Hadlee might have pipped him with 33 > 32 but I fear Paddles' 909 will soon be overtaken by Bumrah!

from https://www.relianceiccrankings.com/alltime/test/bowling/:

View attachment 44239

View attachment 44240

Lillee is very low at 41 with 884 points (possibly due to inactivity/WSC?) while Wasim is languishing at 80 with just 830 points (and never rose above #2 in the rankings).

If he misses some tests this year (which he probably will) his rating will drop. Hadlee is probably safe.

 

[ankitj]

Perth was important but not a decider.

This is another one of your arbitrary categories in your head. Every test is high stakes as long as opposition is playing best available XI.

 

[centurymaker]

To go higher, Bumrah would have to do really well particularly in the start of the England series.

 

[sayon basak]

Says the one who literally watches brainrot **** videos on YouTube

Hey I used to watch them 4/5 years ago. They are just a source of nostalgia now (like thakurmar jhuli)

 

[capt_Luffy]

Hey I used to watch them 4/5 years ago. They are just a source of nostalgia now (like thakurmar jhuli)

Tun tunir boi solos thakumar jhuli hard
(But yes, still oddly nostalgic and will sound like a boomer, but something the next generation won't really know of)

 

[subshakerz]

This is another one of your arbitrary categories in your head. Every test is high stakes as long as opposition is playing best available XI.

If every game is equally high stakes then why bring up Perth? You are contradicting yourself.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

To go higher, Bumrah would have to do really well particularly in the start of the England series.

Ranking is also influenced by wins if he wants to go higher. Knocking over Root and Brook cheaply may help too.

However, if Bumrah lets Crawley get past 20 he'll probably lose a lot of points.

 

[Coronis]

As much as I get this, "ATG" is an entirely invented, arbitrary distinction anyway. It's perfectly fine for people to set their own thresholds IMO so long as they understand that they're arbitrary thresholds and aren't too particular about demanding that everyone else respects them.

Yeah people arguing over if someone is ATG or not is odd sometimes because everyone has their own personal definition of ATG.

 

[sayon basak]

Tun tunir boi solos thakumar jhuli hard.

**** off!!!

(But yes, still oddly nostalgic and will sound like a boomer, but something the next generation won't really know of)

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah people arguing over if someone is ATG or not is odd sometimes because everyone has their own personal definition of ATG.

Yeah sometimes they're arguing about how good the player is, but sometimes they're just arguing about how exclusive the title is.

It reminds me of "overrated" - with this you're arguing how high you rate someone and also how high you think other people do.

It's possible that I can say someone is overrated and someone disagrees but actually rates that player lower than I do, because their perception of how other people rate them is way lower.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Two people can rate a player exactly the same ...maybe both think player X is the 17th greatest batsman ever. But there'll be a pages long argument because X is an ATG for one poster and isn't for another because they define ATG differently. It's dumb and just devolves into a discussion about what is ATG while not being a discussion about the player at all.

 

[ankitj]

If every game is equally high stakes then why bring up Perth? You are contradicting yourself.

Where did I say it was higher stake?

 

[Randomfan]

Record in wins is a useless metric

5-fers in wins simply shows that bowler did pick up 5-fer and match result went for his team due to his outsized contribution. It does not capture anything else. Why it will be useless in context of discussion?

Yes., win has other factors like players playing with you, opposition, if it came in your home ground or came away etc... Also, you can take a brilliant 5-fer in draw or even in a loss and it won't show up here, but 5-fers in win captures how often your 5-fers have resulted in changing the results of the match.

Not useless at all specially when we are talking about other instances where he went missing, India lost and counting it as a negative. It's surely not a metric to start ranking bowlers but very relevant for discussion about him going misss vs how often he contributed heavily to take India over the line. I don't recall India winning many tests in sena before Bumrah debuted.

 

[ankitj]

5-fers in wins simply shows that bowler did pick up 5-fer and match result went for his team due to his outsized contribution. It does not capture anything else. Why it will be useless in context of discussion?

Yes., win has other factors like players playing with you, opposition, if it came in your home ground or came away etc... Also, you can take a brilliant 5-fer in draw or even in a loss and it won't show up here, but 5-fers in win captures how often your 5-fers have resulted in changing the results of the match.

Not useless at all specially when we are talking about other instances where he went missing, India lost and counting it as a negative. It's surely not a metric to start ranking bowlers but very relevant for discussion about him going misss vs how often he contributed heavily to take India over the line. I don't recall India winning many tests in sena before Bumrah debuted.

Kumble has better average in wins than Warne
Flower had better average in wins than Lara

You win more matches against weaker teams and in favourable conditions. Completely useless in determining who was a better "match winner".

 

[Coronis]

Kumble has better average in wins than Warne
Flower had better average in wins than Lara

You win more matches against weaker teams and in favourable conditions. Completely useless in determining who was a better match winner.

Voges has a better average in wins than Bradman.

 

[Coronis]

Grant Flower is the GOAT btw. 58.77 and 15.12 in wins.

 

[sayon basak]

Kumble has better average in wins than Warne
Flower had better average in wins than Lara

You win more matches against weaker teams and in favourable conditions. Completely useless in determining who was a better match winner.

That is a good reason but not the most important reason imo.

One could bash already won matches and boost his average in winning matches, but that wouldn't mean he won the match. But the metric cannot account for that.

 

[Prince EWS]

Grant Flower is the GOAT btw. 58.77 and 15.12 in wins.

When he's done you're going to be sick of winning.