Is Jasprit Bumrah an ATG test bowler?

[subshakerz]

One issue with Bumrah I had before is that in high stakes scenarios in tests he tends to not deliver.

In SA 2021 after the 1st test that India won he was oddly anodyne as SA chased two scores and India lost a golden opportunity to win the series.

Then later that year he failed to defend nearly 400 as Eng BazBalled him and India couldn't win that deciding game.

He went wicketless in the 2021 WTC final.

And then breaking down this key Sydney game, though not a performance issue, also doesn't help this problem.

 

[Coronis]

Realistically, he will play majority of games against the top 4-5 test sides of his era.

And England

 

[centurymaker]

Then later that year he failed to defend nearly 400 as Eng BazBalled him and India couldn't win that deciding game.

He went wicketless in the 2021 WTC final.

And then breaking down this key Sydney game, though not a performance issue, also doesn't help this problem.

This is the game where he hurt his back but continued bowling. Didn't play another test for more than a year.

 

[subshakerz]

This is the game where he hurt his back but continued bowling. Didn't play another test for more than a year.

Sure. Just saying in the macro, Bumrah has definitely made India more competitive abroad but he gave me the impression of not exactly saving his best for the big moments in tests.

 

[centurymaker]

Sure. Just saying in the macro, Bumrah has definitely made India more competitive abroad but he gave me the impression of not exactly saving his best for the big moments in tests.

For India every away test in Sena is a big moment. If he doesn't perform at high level in the first few games, series is gone even before reaching the final tests.

 

[subshakerz]

For India every away test in Sena is a big moment. If he doesn't perform at high level in the first few games, series is gone even before reaching the final tests.

Yeah no one is faulting his overall performance in SENA but obviously more pressure in deciding games.

 

[Randomfan]

One issue with Bumrah I had before is that in high stakes scenarios in tests he tends to not deliver.

In SA 2021 after the 1st test that India won he was oddly anodyne as SA chased two scores and India lost a golden opportunity to win the series.

Then later that year he failed to defend nearly 400 as Eng BazBalled him and India couldn't win that deciding game.

He went wicketless in the 2021 WTC final.

And then breaking down this key Sydney game, though not a performance issue, also doesn't help this problem.

May be , we are so used to seeing him do well that when he is not performing it feels like he failed in those games and all those games were the only high stakes games. I think he played and did well in lots of high stakes games in Aus, Eng and SA. India did win/draw those series. I don't think he even played when Ind was 2-1 up in Eng.

I am sure, we can find countless examples of similar situation for many others if we start going one by one.

To put it in perspective, very very few bowlers have lots of 5-fers in wins when playing away. Not saying that 5-fers is the only way to contribute, but using it as a short cut.

5-fers in away wins for pacers since 1960s - Top 5




Bumrah has played only 40 odd tests so far. Showing up in top 5 here means he is certainly doing his part to win games and many of them were high stakes games based on 2 series wins in Aus and 2 series draws in Eng/SA.

May be expectations have become too high ?

 

[subshakerz]

May be , we are so used to seeing him do well that when he is not performing it feels like he failed in those games and all those games were the only high stakes games. I think he played and did well in lots of high stakes games in Aus, Eng and SA. India did win/draw those series. I don't think he even played when Ind was 2-1 up in Eng.

I am sure, we can find countless examples of similar situation for many others if we start going one by one.

To put it in perspective, very very few bowlers have lots of 5-fers in wins when playing away. Not saying that 5-fers is the only way to contrinbute, but using it as a short cut.

5-fers in win away wins for pacers since 1960s - Top 5

View attachment 44232


Bumrah has played only 40 odd tests so far. Showing up in top 5 here means he is certainly doing his part to win games and many of them were high stakes games based on 2 series wins in Aus and 2 series draws in Eng/SA.

May be expectations have become too high ?

This is just a minor critique because his overall performance is so impressive but yeah before he had his long back injury, I noticed he did have an odd tendency to suddenly go missing or seem like an ordinary member of the attack.

Not the last year though.

 

[Randomfan]

This is just a minor critique because his overall performance is so impressive but yeah before he had his long back injury, I noticed he did have an odd tendency to suddenly go missing or seem like an ordinary member of the attack.

Not the last year though.

The last year was one of the outlier years even if we look historically and not just for Bumrah. I don't think we should expect such years to be a norm.

Even great bowlers go missing and look ordinary in some tests here and there. That's more normal. He has been brilliant a lot more than going missing. I will expect many going missing, but mostly good tests in future from him. but not a repeat of outlier year. That's too much to expect.

 

[subshakerz]

The last year was one of the outlier years even if we look historically and not just for Bumrah. I don't think we should expect such years to be a norm.

Even great bowlers go missing and look ordinary in some tests here and there. That's more normal. He has been brilliant a lot more than going missing. I will expect many going missing, but mostly good tests in future from him. but not a repeat of outlier year. That's too much to expect.

Sure but can we acknowledge him going missing in some really key deciding tests? India honestly should have won in SA in 2022 and England too. WTC final was odd for him to go wicketless.

 

[centurymaker]

England one the pitch was super flat once the ball got old, credit to England for bazballing to the total. India didn't do badly. England didn't even allow India to get to the 2nd new ball, which could have been decisive.

India was 2-1 against old England. But the 5th test was played against a much stronger and spirited side who had just had 3 successful dominant run chases vs NZ of totals around 280-300.

SA one sure India should have won. Lots of plays and missed and close shaves from both sides. Anything could have happened.

 

[centurymaker]

Look England didn't even let Australia win the 2019 series or 2023 series. Australia was in a similar lead in 2019 (2-1), and then had an even bigger lead in 2023 (2-0). Yet Aus won neither series.

But we don't question Australia much, because top home sides hardly ever let their opponents secure series wins in their backyard, especially over a long series.

India could win a 3 match series in England more easily than a 5 match series. But over 5 tests home sides inevitably find the replacements and what not- to get the job done. Last team to win a 5 match series away from home was England in 2010/11 in Australia. 14+ years ago. Australia hasn't won a 5 match series in England since 2001, despite being so dominant.

 

[subshakerz]

Look England didn't even let Australia win the 2019 series or 2023 series. Australia was in a similar lead in 2019 (2-1), and then had an even bigger lead in 2023 (2-0). Yet Aus won neither series.

But we don't question Australia, because top home sides hardly ever let their opponents secure series wins in their backyard, especially over a long series.

India could win a 3 match series in England more easily than a 5 match series. But over 5 tests home sides inevitably finds the replacements and what not- to get the job done. Last team to win a 5 match series away from home was England in 2010/11 in Australia. 14+ years ago. Australia hasn't won a 5 match series in England since 2001, despite being so dominant.

I can see a case for writing off the Eng 2022 last test for Bumrah.

 

[ankitj]

One issue with Bumrah I had before is that in high stakes scenarios in tests he tends to not deliver.

In SA 2021 after the 1st test that India won he was oddly anodyne as SA chased two scores and India lost a golden opportunity to win the series.

Then later that year he failed to defend nearly 400 as Eng BazBalled him and India couldn't win that deciding game.

He went wicketless in the 2021 WTC final.

And then breaking down this key Sydney game, though not a performance issue, also doesn't help this problem.

Perth game somehow was not high stakes? Are JAMTests a thing now?

 

[ankitj]

5-fers in away wins for pacers since 1960s - Top 5

Record in wins is a useless metric

 

[centurymaker]

2019 Ashes
2023 Ashes
2021-22 Eng v Ind

If all of the three series above were four matches long, England would've been in trouble of losing each one.
(they won the 5th test in all 3 to draw level).

India's 5th test is a bigger exception as it was played a year later. No prep for India, personnel changes for England as well as new captain and coach. Injuries to Indian openers, Virat no longer captain, Shastri no longer coach, new captain out with injury, venue change, different month, opposition completely under a spell. It couldn't be more different.

 

[sayon basak]

167÷0 is undefined not infinity

You could say it's infinity. Because the number of wickets taken cannot be negative, so you approach the limit from positive direction.

Faxx.

 

[sayon basak]

Bumrah has massively failed against New Zealand.
No ATG bowler averages 45. Remember he was horrendous in the WTC final and pretty much singlehandedly cost India an ICC trophy against NZ.

You're not banned yet?

 

[subshakerz]

Perth game somehow was not high stakes? Are JAMTests a thing now?

Perth was important but not a decider.

 

[sayon basak]

You can't be a true one without failing it. See Sobers, Garry.

He probably doesn't know Sobers.