Gary Sobers vs Steven Smith

[DrWolverine]

The only time in 2010s Virat Kohli was rated higher than Steven Smith was when the latter was banned.

 

[Bitmap]

Yeah I think it was pretty close between all four of them till around 2016. Then Steve Smith had that monster 2017 season and he separated himself from the rest and has been the numero uno batter of the era since then.

 

[Johan]

Yeah there was no shortage of flat pitches in India before 2018 which is when things really became incredibly difficult consistently IIRC. That series against England in particular comes to mind.

Yeah, those consecutive double hundreds against Lanka come to mind, or the England series in general of 2016, the weaker teams in general pre 2018 got flatter wickets tbh as they backed their batting at the time, they don't anymore and thus need extreme turners.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yeah I think it was pretty close between all four of them till around 2016. Then Steve Smith had that monster 2017 season and he separated himself from the rest and has been the numero uno batter of the era since then.

Kinda my point Exactly, Kohli backed it up with his very own monstrous 2018 season

 

[subshakerz]

That's a lie. You always played up how flat his home conditions were but always ignored how great he was away and especially in England, India and decent in South Africa.

When was that?

 

[DrWolverine]

Yeah I think it was pretty close between all four of them till around 2016.

Smith hits his peak in 2014.

Between 2014-2016 he was easily better than the rest

Total runs(2014-2016)


Away(2014-2016)


Total Runs(against SENA-IP) 2014-2016


Away runs(against SENA-IP) 2014-2016

 

[Johan]

Williamson getting accidentally exposed

 

[DrWolverine]

Home. Away. Against the top teams.
It did not really matter.
Steven Smith was just ahead of everyone else.

 

[DrWolverine]

Kane Williamson has one of the worst away records

In SouthAfrica : Avg of 21 in 4 Tests
In SriLanka : Avg of 29 in 9 Tests
In England : Avg of 30 in 8 Tests
In India : Avg of 33 in 8 Tests

 

[Bitmap]

Kinda my point Exactly, Kohli backed it up with his very own monstrous 2018 season

Kohli certainly narrowed the gap with that season but it was always like him chasing for that crown. He did come close but Smith by then was just a bit too ahead.

Smith hits his peak in 2014.

Between 2014-2016 he was easily better than the rest

Total runs(2014-
View attachment 43728

Away(2014-2016)
View attachment 43729

Total Runs(against SENA-IP)
View attachment 43730

Away runs(against SENA-IP)
View attachment 43731

By close I mean that there were multiple opinions going around that time that Smith still belonged to that group. In 2017 he just put an end to those things and really separated himself from the rest and put himself in altogether a different tier.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

In terms of rank? No please.

I believed he's capable of this. He's deep enough into his career that's he's basically locked in.

No amount of cliff falling can drag him down, no amount of revival can elevate him higher.

But that's just me, and 6th best if all time feels about right.

I don't think he's locked in, unironically he gets a boost for his current efforts vs Bumrah et al.

I don't have him as ranked as highly as you do (yet) because I don't think he's done enough outside of his crazy 5 year prime to push him ahead of some of the other ATGs who were great for longer (even if Smith peaked higher). If he can carry on for a couple more years while making significant contributions, that'll push him higher up my rankings by the time he's done.

 

[DrWolverine]

I was watching the match today and thinking we are witnessing a duel between ARUGUABLY the best batsman & best fast bowler in the last 80 years.

 

[kyear2]

It was never close, it looked like Kohli will bridge the gap in 2018 when Smith was banned and then Ashes 2019 happened and that was that, never again was Kohli, Root or Williamson ever percieved in the same class as Smith.

This.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

When was that?

All the time. I'm too lazy to dig up your posts but you always played up Smith's home wickets. And when we brought up how he'd done well away and was unique among his contemporaries, you'd dismiss it time and time again. It came up more so in our comparisons to Sachin.

 

[subshakerz]

All the time. I'm too lazy to dig up your posts but you always played up Smith's home wickets. And when we brought up how he'd done well away and was unique among his contemporaries, you'd dismiss it time and time again. It came up more so in our comparisons to Sachin.

My critique was always that padding on home tracks and relatively less playing against worldclass bowlers in his career sample compared to Lara and Tendulkar. I still hold those critiques but his allround record doesn't have weaknesses per se.

I also stated that despite the above I was willing to rate him above Sachin if he continued averaging 60 plus even after dip.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

My critique was always that padding on home tracks and relatively less playing against worldclass bowlers in his career sample compared to Lara and Tendulkar. I still hold those critiques but his allround record doesn't have weaknesses per se.

I also stated that despite the above I was willing to rate him above Sachin if he continued averaging 60 plus even after dip.

Ok fair to you then. But i disagree with the not playing world class attack thingy. Imo, he's played class attacks as often as Sachin/Lara did. Because let's not pretend that Sachin or Lara spent their careers playing atg attacks or played them with any regularity. Sachin hardly played Ambrose or the Ws and played most times vs Australia without Glenn. He did often play class South African attacks but so too did Smith.

 

[kyear2]

I don't think he's locked in, unironically he gets a boost for his current efforts vs Bumrah et al.

I don't have him as ranked as highly as you do (yet) because I don't think he's done enough outside of his crazy 5 year prime to push him ahead of some of the other ATGs who were great for longer (even if Smith peaked higher). If he can carry on for a couple more years while making significant contributions, that'll push him higher up my rankings by the time he's done.

Those 8 guys are the pantheon of the sport and any of them can lay claim to the best.

Think Hobbs and Smith can lay claim to statistically being the closest to Bradman, but... Sachin did it for longer and against better bowling. Viv is arguably the best ever vs pace and didn't have a dead pitch era nor did he get to feast vs minnows and also, again better bowlers. Hutton was spotless in one of the toughest eras and took on two of the toughest duos ever. Sobers too did it for longer, and did it with a staggering bowling work load, and has more great knocks vs the greats of his era. Even Lara had more epic series and knocks vs Titans.

It's tough up there.

 

[kyear2]

I was watching the match today and thinking we are witnessing a duel between ARUGUABLY the best batsman & best fast bowler in the last 80 years.

I would not go that far.

I felt that way watching Lara vs McWarne, don't think anything tops that for me personally.

Sure many felt the same when Lillee went up against Viv, ummm, possibly Sobers as well.

What has impressed me the most this match was Jaiswal's innings tbh.

 

[DrWolverine]

I would not go that far.

That’s is why I said ARGUABLY

We will know in the next 10 years

 

[kyear2]

That’s is why I said ARGUABLY

We will know in the next 10 years

Added an edit since your response..

Been more than those mentioned as well that I think are easily greater, Sachin and McWarne as well.