Gary Sobers vs Steven Smith

[subshakerz]

I voted for Smith for justice. It's hard to rate anyone from last 50 years above Smith (unless you combine formats or interpret greatness broadly). Hobbs and Sobers I could because there is only tales and grainy footage to go by so you can extend benefit of doubt. I could go anywhere between 2nd and 5th for Smith.

I have Smith as 6th.

 

[kyear2]

Is there any weakness in Smith’s record so far?
In my opinion, no.

1. Gary Sobers averaged 23 against NZ in 12 Tests. Brian Lara averaged 34 against Ind in 17 Tests.

Steven Smith averages 45+ against every country he has played.

2. Gary Sobers played 48 out of 93 Tests against Ind/Pak/SL, the weak teams of his era.

Steven Smith played 16 out of 113 Tests against SL/WI/Bang.

3. Sachin Tendulkar has arguably the perfect record in Test cricket but he never had a huge series. Though one can say he played a 5 Test series just 2 or 3 times.

Smith scored 750+ runs in a series twice. One against England in 8 innings and One against India in 7 innings.

Sobers never played SL

He played 38 matches vs Ind, Pak and NZ, and he failed spectacularly in those 12 tests vs NZ. In those India tests they had multiple iterations of the quartet whom he faced as well.

His record also doesn't include multiple ROW series vs England and Australia which he did quite well in, scoring 3 additional quality hundreds and boosting his average a bit. Relatively late in his career to boot.

 

[DrWolverine]

My bad. Typo error(use a mobile)

I meant 38 out of 93 Tests against Ind/Pak/NZ.

 

[kyear2]

I voted for Smith for justice. It's hard to rate anyone from last 50 years above Smith (unless you combine formats or interpret greatness broadly). Hobbs and Sobers I could because there are only tales and grainy footage to go by so you can extend benefit of doubt. I could go anywhere between 2nd and 5th for Smith.

In my humble opinion the top 8 are all top tier elite and all have their benefits. I think Lara is the best batsman I've ever seen and I have Smith one spot above him.

It's just nit picking for everyone on that top 8 / 9 for me. Like Hutton's s/r. Guys were all brilliant, and hard to separate.

 

[kyear2]

My bad. Typo error(use a mobile)

I meant 38 out of 93 Tests against Ind/Pak/SL.

Again, never played against SL.

 

[DrWolverine]

Again, never played against SL.

S*it.

I meant Ind/Pak/NZ

My mind automatically writes SL everytime I type Ind/Pak

 

[DrWolverine]

In my humble opinion the top 8 are all top tier elite and all have their benefits.

Openers : Hutton & Gavaskar

Rest : Sobers, Richards, Sachin, Lara, Smith.

These 7 are top tier batsmen in the last 80 years

Like you have said they all offer their own benefits

 

[kyear2]

Openers : Hutton & Gavaskar

Rest : Sobers, Richards, Sachin, Lara, Smith.

These 7 are top tier batsmen in the last 80 years

Like you have said they all offer their own benefits

I don't have Gavaskar in that category. Not even the next opener in line.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

They are minor in the grand scheme I agree. I have always tried to argue he is top tier.

That's a lie. You always played up how flat his home conditions were but always ignored how great he was away and especially in England, India and decent in South Africa.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Sobers never played SL

He played 38 matches vs Ind, Pak and NZ, and he failed spectacularly in those 12 tests vs NZ. In those India tests they had multiple iterations of the quartet whom he faced as well.

His record also doesn't include multiple ROW series vs England and Australia which he did quite well in, scoring 3 additional quality hundreds and boosting his average a bit. Relatively late in his career to boot.

And some of those row games initially had test status but were later modified. One reason why I don't count or take into consideration stats in that one 'test' Australia had vs the row in the 2000s.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

My bad. Typo error(use a mobile)

I meant 38 out of 93 Tests against Ind/Pak/NZ.

Fact though, Sobers still did great vs the two good teams of his time. Pity he didn't get a shot at South Africa.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I think he had Kohli ahead for a long time. Not sure about now.

Kohli or anyone else ahead, even with Smith's dip in form is absurd.

 

[sayon basak]

Kohli or anyone else ahead, even with Smith's dip in form is absurd.

Now it is. Once it wasn't.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Now it is. Once it wasn't.

It never was. They all were immense at home but only Smith was great home and away. That's never changed.

 

[sayon basak]

It never was. They all were immense at home but only Smith was great home and away. That's never changed.

Kohli had some ATG tours away from home. It definitely was.

I would choose Smith even at that time, but saying that it wasn't close pre 2019 is comfortably a stretch.

 

[capt_Luffy]

It never was. They all were immense at home but only Smith was great home and away. That's never changed.

2018, Kohli right of the back of SA and England, with his 2014 series in Australia, was arguably ahead of Smith

 

[Johan]

It was never close, it looked like Kohli will bridge the gap in 2018 when Smith was banned and then Ashes 2019 happened and that was that, never again was Kohli, Root or Williamson ever percieved in the same class as Smith.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

2018, Kohli right of the back of SA and England, with his 2014 series in Australia, was arguably ahead of Smith

No he wasn't. I distinctly remember that even with all those great series Kohli had, Smith was still well ahead in overall average 60 odd vs mid 50s. And more importantly, Smith was way ahead away. You mentioned Australia 2014 but interestingly left out England 2014: 5 tests 10 innings and an average of 13.

 

[capt_Luffy]

No he wasn't. I distinctly remember that even with all those great series Kohli had, Smith was still well ahead in overall average 60 odd vs mid 50s. And more importantly, Smith was way ahead away. You mentioned Australia 2014 but interestingly left out England 2014: 5 tests 10 innings and an average of 13.

I interestingly didn't left that out.... Dude really??? Anyways, Kohli just had two ATG away tours in tough countries, arguably 3 in total, while Smith had one. His home conditions were also significantly more challenging and I don't think it was really a hot take back in 2018 for Kohli to be ahead.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I've seen most use the 2019 time-frame so I'll use that as well. Up until that time:

Kohli 84 mts 141 inns 7202 runs @55 with 27 100s and 22 50s. Home/away 68/46

Smith 72 mts 130 inns 7164 runs @63 with 26 100s and 28 50s. Home/away 71/60. It wasn't close.