England in New Zealand 28 Nov-18 Dec 2024 - 3 Tests

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

I’m taking it that Pope will still be backup wickie now if the replacement gets injured?

 

[mackembhoy]

Bethell as the spare bat isn’t the issue for me, very green but has made a good start to international cricket in the white ball stuff, but there really is no harm in naming a slightly bigger squad so you have cover for your top order and your wicket-keeper, they don’t seem to appreciate how specialist those roles are these days (which is odd because Alex Lees, not a BazBaller by any means, but an actual opening batter played in the early days of BazBall!)

Yep must point out not really having a go at Bethell.

Just if your going to name him you need a proper frontline batsman in the squad too which in the case needed to be a keeper bat.

Robinson was very harshly looked over for Cox in the summer anyway so hopefully he's the man that gets his chance in the second test and scores some runs.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

It's a sad way to get there, but Robinson in for Cox feels like a clear upgrade.

 

[Third_Man]

According to Cricinfo Pope won’t be the keeper.

Jordan Cox ruled out of New Zealand Tests with fractured right thumb

He sustained a blow to his right hand during nets; his replacement will be announced in due course

www.espncricinfo.com

‘A replacement will be announced in due course, with Durham's Ollie Robinson expected to be handed a maiden call-up, ahead of England's white-ball regular Phil Salt and Essex's Michael Pepper, who toured the Caribbean with the limited-overs side. Other keeping options included Somerset's James Rew and Lancashire's Matty Hurst, both of whom are due to tour South Africa with the Lions. Jonny Bairstow, still with a year remaining on his central contract, is unlikely to be recalled at this juncture.
Ollie Pope stood in for Cox for the culmination of the warm-up fixture, but England will not want to burden him with more responsibility on top of his duties at No. 3.
Jacob Bethell and Rehan Ahmed will join the rest of the squad in Christchurch on Monday after a few days off following the white-ball tour of the Caribbean which finished last week. Cox's replacement should be on deck in the next 48 hours.’

Matty Hurst! That would be a queue jump equivalent to Jacob Bethell. Does that make it more likely?

Good to see these international schedules are allowing players a few days off after jetting half way round the world.

 

[Third_Man]

Oh well that explains a lot of things. They were happy to just fly someone else over it need be.

It's the modern way

That's not the plan. Stokes is on record saying that the top six is the best available. Bethell's selection is simply a vote of confidence in the status quo. Once again the back up for an opener / top three is probably to fly someone in.

 

[SteveNZ]

5 to win and 1 wicket to get. Play on a couple more overs.

I hope England get pumped in NZ. Whilst the Bazball was a breath of fresh air a couple of Summers ago, it's just become incredibly frustrating, so I'd be happy for its demise to be accelerated (basically, get Key out).

The approach was always going to be a pendulum that swung towards success and had the potential to veer too far back the other way into demise as the tunnel vision around its efficacy took hold.

Now it's up to them to adjust the method, and there's enough nous in that setup to ensure it will. They're still bringing through talent behind the guys who have stepped aside, two poor Tests in Pakistan (and the dead rubber loss at home to Sri Lanka) don't need to be a foreshadow of what is to come.

 

[NZTailender]

I honestly don't feel like there's much rhyme nor reason to form at the moment. You've got teams getting pummeled, who will then pummel someone else, who will pummel someone else, who pummeled the original pummelers

 

[NZTailender]

I honestly don't feel like there's much rhyme nor reason to form at the moment. You've got teams getting pummeled, who will then pummel someone else, who will pummel someone else, who pummeled the original pummelers

 

[GIMH]

I honestly don't feel like there's much rhyme nor reason to form at the moment. You've got teams getting pummeled, who will then pummel someone else, who will pummel someone else, who pummeled the original pummelers

Yeah it doesn’t feel like there’s a standout team. There are some elite talents in a few sides who can carry results alone. And ‘momentum’ seems to carry a fair bit of weight. Tbh makes the scene a whole lot more interesting which can’t be bad for the game.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I honestly don't feel like there's much rhyme nor reason to form at the moment. You've got teams getting pummeled, who will then pummel someone else, who will pummel someone else, who pummeled the original pummelers

I think there's a scene in Asterix and the Goths which is reminiscent of this principle. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[hendrix]

I think there's a scene in Asterix and the Goths which is reminiscent of this principle. I'll see if I can find it.

George Foreman KOed Joe Frazer who beat up Muhammad Ali who KOed...George Foreman

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

 

[Days of Grace]

I confess my ignorance on the recent happenings with English cricket. But why aren’t Foakes and Bairstow being considered?

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

I confess my ignorance on the recent happenings with English cricket. But why aren’t Foakes and Bairstow being considered?

Jaimie Smith has taken over the #1 wicketkeeper spot. He's unavailable for this series only (paternity leave) and pretty much guaranteed to walk back into the side afterwards.

I think the England set up want to take the opportunity to try out new options rather than call up one of the blokes they've moved on from.

 

[BazBall21]

I confess my ignorance on the recent happenings with English cricket. But why aren’t Foakes and Bairstow being considered?

England have moved on from them and they are excessively keen on looking at potential future prospects. I think Robinson coming in for Cox is likely a positive, but the manner of events is brutal on Cox and I doubt Robinson will be able to play the first Test.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah it doesn’t feel like there’s a standout team. There are some elite talents in a few sides who can carry results alone. And ‘momentum’ seems to carry a fair bit of weight. Tbh makes the scene a whole lot more interesting which can’t be bad for the game.

Nah, there isn't. I think batting is the biggest reason for this, and probably always has been. Australia's top order is feeble but on its day on a flat one can go big. India's is the same, plus they go to water when it does a bit. Our top order is actually OK, which is producing decent results for us at times and we won in India because most of them fired at different times. England, I'm sure feels the same with their boom or bust results. Even Sri Lanka has a pretty reasonable top order now, as does SA.

If anyone got their sh*t together and had a powerhouse top 5 they'd be on top of the world, no trouble. India is probably closest to doing that with Jaiswal, Gill, Pant, Rahul and whoever is coming through below them.

 

[Hungry Llama]

Did england say Pope will keep Chch, its assumed by websites but no quote from the management. Prob preferable to cox, but apparently england were so short of players, anderson had to sub for a while. There was talk in the media that Pope would drop down the order if NZ bat first. Bash got a bashing by the students in the PMs game so maybe Leach will play. And in choosing Bethel as their backup batter, they def prefer those who can hit 6s over batters who can bat all day. Has Stokes said whether he'll be bowling this time? So possible XI

Crawley
Ducket
Stokes/Pope?
Root
Brook
Stokes/Pope?
Bethel
Woakes
Atkinson
Carse
Leach
12th man Anderson?

 

[mackembhoy]

I confess my ignorance on the recent happenings with English cricket. But why aren’t Foakes and Bairstow being considered?

Because Foakes showed in India he can't bat with the tail. So hes not suitable for this side and the way they want to play.

Bairstow seems to have just been moved on from in all formats.

As an aside to the Smith not being available part

 

[Chin Music]

Because Foakes showed in India he can't bat with the tail. So hes not suitable for this side and the way they want to play.

Bairstow seems to have just been moved on from in all formats.

As an aside to the Smith not being available part

I have to say that I think overall that Foakes didn't quite have what it takes with the bat. He started off being the prospect who was an excellent keeper who could bat against spin. The reality was a bit brutal for him during the India series last year. Smith looks a high class bat to me, and there may be a case for him to become a proper middle order player with Robinson being the keeper/batter. The most talented batters right now on the edge of the team seem to be the keepers with Robinson and Rew looking really handy.

 

[Hungry Llama]

It might have been better planning to include a spare keeper/batter when they chose the squad rather than 3 spinners, but then they were
still thinking that smith was gonna play the 1st test! muddled thinking.