subshakerz
International Coach
I prefer the bowling all-rounder as long as he is a great captain.
My criteria is someone who bats in the top 7 and bowls regularly as five bowlers.Well I guess one of my qualifiers is you can’t be an allrounder if you haven’t at least scored a century and also taken a 5’fer in tests. Arbitrary? Sure. But I think that’s a good starting point, better than an arbitrary average imo.
A specific amount of Batting in the top seven per inning and average number of overs bowled per inning could serve as a good definition.My criteria is someone who bats in the top 7 and bowls regularly as five bowlers.
But no 5fer or century can weed out quite a few.
I see Hadlee/Ashwin as the minimum standard bat and Kallis as the minimum standard bowler.A specific amount of Batting in the top seven per inning and average number of overs bowled per inning could serve as a good definition.
Kallis bowled 12.3 overs on average per inning.I see Hadlee/Ashwin as the minimum standard bat and Kallis as the minimum standard bowler.
Yeah that's why they are all borderline to me. As in, I can't accept less than them to entertain as all-rounders. Otherwise they are useful tailenders or part time bowlers.Kallis bowled 12.3 overs on average per inning.
Ashwin and Hadlee batted in the top seven 29.53% and 39.55% of the time. Both batted at 8th more frequently than in the top seven.
I think Phillips and possibly Washington S will end up greaterJadeja is greatest spin bowling all rounder. average of 24 with ball and avearage of 37 with bat doesnt that make him atg
Agree. But one would still have to choose where to draw the line. Is it Hadlee's 39% or Ashwin's 29%? Or maybe 25% to include both (which I think is too soft)Yeah that's why they are all borderline to me. As in, I can't accept less than them to entertain as all-rounders. Otherwise they are useful tailenders or part time bowlers.
And maybe Miraz.I think Phillips and possibly Washington S will end up greater
He's been very good recentlyAnd maybe Miraz.
Averages 22 with the bat and 32 with the ball. Just needs to flip that.He's been very good recently
Hadlee. Ashwin is a special case because he batted 8 more mostly due to Jadeja ahead of him. Vettori is also a special case who chose to bat no.8 as well.Agree. But one would still have to choose where to draw the line. Is it Hadlee's 39% or Ashwin's 29%? Or maybe 25% to include both (which I think is too soft)
Can bat competently at 8, and bowl regularly at 3rd or 4th change. 1 wicket per match for the batting all rounders and and a batting average around 20 for the bowling all rounders is good enough for me.My criteria is someone who bats in the top 7 and bowls regularly as five bowlers.
But no 5fer or century can weed out quite a few.
Meh, so someone plays 100 Tests for 100 wickets as batting allrounder and about 1500 runs for bowling allrounder. Mind blowing mediocrityCan bat competently at 8, and bowl regularly at 3rd or 4th change. 1 wicket per match for the batting all rounders and and a batting average around 20 for the bowling all rounders is good enough for me.
No. Wasim, Philander, etc aren't all-rounders. Has to be mid late 20s averaging at least.Can bat competently at 8, and bowl regularly at 3rd or 4th change. 1 wicket per match for the batting all rounders and and a batting average around 20 for the bowling all rounders is good enough for me.
We are talking minimum standard to qualify to even be called one.Meh, so someone plays 100 Tests for 100 wickets as batting allrounder and about 1500 runs for bowling allrounder. Mind blowing mediocrity
Yeah, someone that takes 100 tests to take 100 wickets is not an allrounder. It's someone who bowls a bit and hopefully bats better than they bowlWe are talking minimum standard to qualify to even be called one.
Yeah I don't like the 1 wicket per test standard either. Carl Hooper would be an AR then. That's why I just care if they are regularly used in the 5 bowling options.Yeah, someone that takes 100 tests to take 100 wickets is not an allrounder. It's someone who bowls a bit
Kallis is actually 1.76 wpm. I personally think an allrounder should be at least 2 wpm but Kallis forces us to lower the standard to about 1.75 wpm to fit him inYeah I don't like the 1 wicket per test standard either. Carl Hooper would be an AR then. That's why I just care if they are regularly used in the 5 bowling options.
I said Kallis is the minimum I would go and he is 1.5, but for much of his career nearly 2.
What about someone like Stokes, who has been above 2 wpm for most of his career but whose bowling has become less of a factor in recent times, not because of ability, but fitness?Kallis is actually 1.76 wpm. I personally think an allrounder should be at least 2 wpm but Kallis forces us to lower the standard to about 1.75 wpm to fit him in