*OFFICIAL* England in Pakistan 2024

[social]

But what did he actually do wrong? His Test average is 22, so not like he's had a string of bad performances. He's had a couple of bad ones in India, well what seamer hasn't? He continues to bowl well for Sussex. I suspect it's simply that he doesn't quite fit in, which is pretty damning on the unit if you ask me.

Not fit enough in Australia then same thing happened in West Indies (?)

Remember Ponting commentating at the time and there’s no way he would ever have picked him again

 

[flibbertyjibber]

But what did he actually do wrong? His Test average is 22, so not like he's had a string of bad performances. He's had a couple of bad ones in India, well what seamer hasn't? He continues to bowl well for Sussex. I suspect it's simply that he doesn't quite fit in, which is pretty damning on the unit if you ask me.

I'd say it's probably due to the fact he hasn't followed the fitness programme they gave him to be a capable player in international cricket and he has slipped off more than once so they had enough. Add in the podcast and he is making himself look a trouble maker in a tight unit much like KP did 12/13 years ago.

How long do you give a guy? They clearly felt they gave him enough chances and maybe he is getting shunted quicker because of the mess of the KP affair still being fresh in the minds of people in charge.

 

[ImpatientLime]

england need leach on. he's probably their only decent bet of offering a modicum of control.

 

[Spark]

But what did he actually do wrong? His Test average is 22, so not like he's had a string of bad performances. He's had a couple of bad ones in India, well what seamer hasn't? He continues to bowl well for Sussex. I suspect it's simply that he doesn't quite fit in, which is pretty damning on the unit if you ask me.

I know McCullum isn't known for being the most tolerant guy with regards to alternative characters but I see absolutely no reason why "the unit" is to blame here. There's a lot more to team sports than just picking the best stats, especially when you remember that these guys have to basically become roommates for large chunks of the year.

 

[ImpatientLime]

the england dressing room is an odd place. robinson (probably rightfully was dropkicked) but obvious bullies like swann thrived for years.

 

[Starfighter]

There’s a classic story about when Buchanan thought he was losing the dressing room and asked if anyone had better plans

McGrath replied “top of off then give it to Warnie” and team walked out

Woakes “looks nice” but his length & line is inconsistent

But his line and length isn't inconsistent in England. So why should it be overseas?

 

[BazBall21]

Leach should have been on earlier. More control than Bashir and compliments a seam attack that struggle to keep it tight (and struggle to take wickets). Guess Masood being left handed made them hesitate.

 

[kevinw]

Has Pope forgotten that leach is on the field?

 

[Spark]

But his line and length isn't inconsistent in England. So why should it be overseas?

It's probably to do with his stock delivery being both less threatening and easier to score off overseas, forcing him to make adjustments which are unusually difficult for him to do compared to other bowlers.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

But his line and length isn't inconsistent in England. So why should it be overseas?

Mental I think. Only reason for it.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Well it could be a long tour with this attack.

 

[Starfighter]

It's probably to do with his stock delivery being both less threatening and easier to score off overseas, forcing him to make adjustments which are unusually difficult for him to do compared to other bowlers.

Nah, because he's often not good from the outset of a spell. It's the looseness that lets batsmen attack him.

Hobart first innings was a great example. He had about the best conditions he could have asked for and sent down a welter of half volleys. Sure Head batted very well, but the way Woakes and Wood instantly released the pressure was quite noticeable at the time.

 

[Nintendo]

the england dressing room is an odd place. robinson (probably rightfully was dropkicked) but obvious bullies like swann thrived for years.

Different management teams, no? Guys like swann and KP where in a very different team. It's kind of like the whole "how would KP go in bazball thing" where he just would have been binned off after 6 months no matter how good he was because he was an egotistical ****.

 

[ImpatientLime]

jimmy anderson didn't get forced to play the alfred dunhill links champs for this.

 

[Spark]

Nah, because he's often not good from the outset of a spell. It's the looseness that lets batsmen attack him.

That could well be the result of him feeling he needs to adjust, though. Obviously it's a mental thing, it's just trying to figure out what exact mental thing is behind it.

 

[the big bambino]

The last series had plenty of caught down the leg sides? I remember when Pope kept, most of Woods wickets were like that.

Leg side strangle is the most unappreciated wicket taking ball in cricket.

 

[Spark]

the england dressing room is an odd place. robinson (probably rightfully was dropkicked) but obvious bullies like swann thrived for years.

This is why I think a part of it is that he's straight up disliked by the senior English players and team management. Swann was a bully... who was best mates with all the senior players. So he stayed.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Different management teams, no? Guys like swann and KP where in a very different team. It's kind of like the whole "how would KP go in bazball thing" where he just would have been binned off after 6 months no matter how good he was because he was an egotistical ****.

absolutely but more a point at how the ecb is absolutely ****ing dire at managing people with challenging personalities.

 

[kevinw]

Well it could be a long tour with this attack.

I still don't understand why so many England fans were confident going into this tour.

 

[social]

But his line and length isn't inconsistent in England. So why should it be overseas?

Combination of factors

Gets more movement in England so batsmen aren’t as confident

He’s not confident overseas so might be trying a bit hard