*OFFICIAL* England in Pakistan 2024

[Molehill]

I'd say it's probably due to the fact he hasn't followed the fitness programme they gave him to be a capable player in international cricket and he has slipped off more than once so they had enough. Add in the podcast and he is making himself look a trouble maker in a tight unit much like KP did 12/13 years ago.

How long do you give a guy? They clearly felt they gave him enough chances and maybe he is getting shunted quicker because of the mess of the KP affair still being fresh in the minds of people in charge.

You say 'how long do you give a guy'? Woakes is playing in this Test!!

He took wickets at under 26 in Australia in a largely pathetic series for everyone, yet he gets singled out?

Yes, he may have done some daft things, but his performances on the park were really not the issue. A lot of people trying to call out his fitness when the numbers don't really stack up.

 

[Molehill]

Anyway, pretty woeful morning that for England even if the pitch is flat. Woakes and Carse looking like the questionable selections we knew they would be, whilst Bashir should surely have been removed from the attack.

 

[Nintendo]

You say 'how long do you give a guy'? Woakes is playing in this Test!!

He took wickets at under 26 in Australia in a largely pathetic series for everyone, yet he gets singled out?

Yes, he may have done some daft things, but his performances on the park were really not the issue. A lot of people trying to call out his fitness when the numbers don't really stack up.

He broke down under pretty normal workloads in both Australia and India, no? 40 YO Anderson was playing both those series and didn't break down. Not saying he doesn't try in regards to fitness, but there's clearly been point's where he's not been fit enough for test cricket.

 

[Apex Predator]

Woakes failed on a green seaming Mamba in Hobart. Why would you pick him over Potts in a subcontinent test on a flat track ?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

You say 'how long do you give a guy'? Woakes is playing in this Test!!

He took wickets at under 26 in Australia in a largely pathetic series for everyone, yet he gets singled out?

Yes, he may have done some daft things, but his performances on the park were really not the issue. A lot of people trying to call out his fitness when the numbers don't really stack up.

I know where you are coming from but there is clearly more to it that will probably come out later in the autobiography of various players etc...

We are just guessing but clearly from Rob Keys comment his card has been marked.

 

[ImpatientLime]

You say 'how long do you give a guy'? Woakes is playing in this Test!!

aka the worst touring english seam bowler in test match history.

its a fair point.

 

[Spark]

I know where you are coming from but there is clearly more to it that will probably come out later in the autobiography of various players etc...

We are just guessing but clearly from Rob Keys comment his card has been marked.

Butcher was quite unequivocal too:

"I don't think there's any denying his [Robinson's] skill as a bowler, and I'm pretty sure that is not the reason why he's on the outside at the moment," said Butcher, speaking on the Wisden Cricket Weekly podcast. "I think there's been a breakdown in trust between him and the management. From what I've heard and what I think I know, the covenant of trust between those guys and the player has broken down almost irretrievably.

"The management would lay the blame at his door firmly, he might have a riposte to that but that is basically it. There are no denying the numbers or the skill he has. But the England players are given quite a lot of leeway in terms of the trust they are given by management, and I think he's broken that once too many for [Brendon] McCullum and [Ben] Stokes and therefore finds himself on the outer."

I mean if people keep saying the same things for years and years and it only gets worse, I think it's pretty obvious where the problem lies.

 

[Burgey]

Former Lindfield Shires off spinner Shoaib Bashir certainly bowling to that standard thus far today.

 

[ashley bach]

England should take some credit for the excellent run rate.

 

[kevinw]

Butcher was quite unequivocal too:



I mean if people keep saying the same things for years and years and it only gets worse, I think it's pretty obvious where the problem lies.

Agree but as he's the best seamer we have by miles I would hope there would be some form of rehabilitation.

 

[social]

Butcher was quite unequivocal too:



I mean if people keep saying the same things for years and years and it only gets worse, I think it's pretty obvious where the problem lies.

Mentioned before that a mate of mine coached 2 current internationals and he’s described to me their contracts

We all would be in breach within a week but the reality is that they’re flexible in their attitude IF THEY WANT YOU

He’s in breach and they don’t want him

End of story

 

[Spark]

I know where you are coming from but there is clearly more to it that will probably come out later in the autobiography of various players etc...

We are just guessing but clearly from Rob Keys comment his card has been marked.

The Ranchi Test was almost certainly the final straw. If you, as a fast bowler, are so poorly conditioned that in your first Test match back you do your back while batting and basically can't bowl at full pace (and are extremely loose to boot) in a Test where just one extra bowler at full strength could have made a huge difference... that's the sort of thing that gets remembered at this level.

 

[Molehill]

He broke down under pretty normal workloads in both Australia and India, no? 40 YO Anderson was playing both those series and didn't break down. Not saying he doesn't try in regards to fitness, but there's clearly been point's where he's not been fit enough for test cricket.

Fast bowler breaks down - that's not exactly anything new. His record of managing to get himself onto the field regularly is significantly better than many others in the England camp.

Yeah, it's clearly more down to off field things.

 

[social]

The Ranchi Test was almost certainly the final straw. If you, as a fast bowler, are so poorly conditioned that in your first Test match back you do your back while batting and basically can't bowl at full pace (and are extremely loose to boot) in a Test where just one extra bowler at full strength could have made a huge difference... that's the sort of thing that gets remembered at this level.

.

Yep

He let the team down in Australia (forget about his figures as he was rubbish) and lucky to get a chance after that

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

The problem with Bashir is that he has to be exceptional with the ball to justify his selection because he's a genuine no.11 ..

Think England should have invested more in Dom Bess , he wasn't as terrible as made out to be with the ball plus he can bat , and he's still only 27 years old

 

[Spark]

.

Yep

He let the team down in Australia (forget about his figures as he was rubbish) and lucky to get a chance after that

He's also not that young (which actually surprised me for some reason). We're all talking about him like he's 25yo and still learning what it takes to be an international pro. But he's 30. These issues should have been put to bed years ago.

 

[Chin Music]

Can we get Jimmy off the golf course and onto the pitch instead of Woakes please? He may not have bowled a ball since July but he really can't be any worse surely......

 

[Spark]

The problem with Bashir is that he has to be exceptional with the ball to justify his selection because he's a genuine no.11 ..

Think England should have invested more in Dom Bess , he wasn't as terrible as made out to be with the ball plus he can bat , and he's still only 27 years old

Think Bashir has vastly more upside potential than Bess IMO (who admittedly I don't rate at all). He's worth persisting with for sure.

 

[Molehill]

Think Bashir has vastly more upside potential than Bess IMO (who admittedly I don't rate at all). He's worth persisting with for sure.

There is obviously that, but he's still got very little FC experience and there are guys in the County Championship who I believe would offer far more as all round players. Learning your job in the Test arena is not exactly a nailed on for success policy.

 

[BazBall21]

Carse isn't accurate enough for this short ball ploy to work on a pudding. Needs to inflict a significant percentage of deliveries around the head for one to be spoofed up in the air.