South Africa team selection

[SeamUp]

Not impressed with Walter at all , you don't leave a team vulnerable like this .

Baartman and Ngidi average single digits with the bat , Williams averages 10 and our no.8 Fortuin averages 16 , this is List A cricket I'm talking about , and shielding the tail is Phehlukwayo at No.7 , Stubbs and Mulder who are still trying to find their feet with the bat are at 5 & 6

What we got on the bench?

Verreynne, Smith, Peter and Burger?

 

[StephenZA]

How we can be playing de Zorzi, Bavuma and van der Dussen in the top 4 I don't understand. But this right now is the culmination of ten years of bad decision making of cricket in SA. And its not looking to be changing, and that's the sad part.

 

[Bahseph]

Someone get Bedingham in this top four ASAP.

 

[Bahseph]

Also Peter batted before Fortuin on Sunday. I know it was a random T20 but that caught me off guard.

 

[FBU]

Can't believe Stubbs high score is 26 and Rickleton 21

Now 47 and 36

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

What we got on the bench?

Verreynne, Smith, Peter and Burger?

I mean I wouldn't have dropped Verreynne , he's done some good things in odi cricket , 2 bad innings vs Afghanistan shouldn't have led to him being dropped considering the lack of batting depth that coach Walter picked , I mean that's the issue here,the squad picked for the conditions..Players have let us down too but you look at the balance of the squad and you got to question the coach it's a results business and the results are pathetic right now.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

When you pick such a top 4 heavy team they can't play with freedom , cause they know a collapse can happen at anytime , and it's not like we've picked world class bowlers either , guys like Baartman , Fortuin , Williams they aren't even youngsters

 

[Stefan9]

The selections are bad but you also expect senior players to take responsibility and guide the youngsters. Not seeing that from Temba, rassie and co...

 

[Stefan9]

Can't believe Stubbs high score is 26 and Rickleton 21

Only rickelton's second and Stubbs 4th ODI.

 

[FBU]

Only rickelton's second and Stubbs 4th ODI.

So I see. Why so few ODIs for them?

73 for Rickleton, 50 for Stubbs

 

[SeamUp]

So I see. Why so few ODIs for them?

We've hardly played ODI cricket outside the WC and the batting line-up has been set.

QdK
Bavuma/Reeza
Vd Dussen
Markram
Klaasen
Miller

 

[Dendarii]

So I see. Why so little ODIs for them?

Not many openings in the batting line-up. The mainstay for a while has been De Kock, Bavuma, Markram, Van Der Dussen, Klaassen, and Miller. What they're doing now is trying to build some depth by giving fringe players game time, which isn't necessarily a bad idea but it needs to be done sensibly, and we remain unconvinced by the way they're going about it.

 

[StephenZA]

The selections are bad but you also expect senior players to take responsibility and guide the youngsters. Not seeing that from Temba, rassie and co...

There are no senior players. Bavuma, RvD where never proper senior players. The closest to senior player we've had recently is Miller and Elgar.

The Amlas, ABdVs, Steyns and Kallis's never got a real opportunity to work with the most talented of our youngsters. And they have basically been ostracised from within the SA cricket structures. For various different reasons. Donald, Kirsten, Klusener all went on to coach even our own and other international teams. Not all players will do it, but the only one of the recent generations I can think of is Duminy and maybe Prince.

My point being that you have to transfer the skills, the experience and you need to continuously be thinking at least five better ten years ahead. SA hasn't done that in ages. And on top of that they eroded the FC structure to something that is practically non-existence. SA has plenty of cricketing talent but they are having to build from scratch, again. But they not actually trying to do that, and nobody seems interested in SA doing that.

So you see guys like Rickelton, de Zorzi, Stubbs, Markram having to learn skills without the backup and also somehow keep everybody happy. Just not gonna happen. More often than not even the most talented players will buckle under the pressure.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Great rebuild from Rickelton and Stubbs going on , saved our bacon

 

[SeamUp]

I mean I wouldn't have dropped Verreynne , he's done some good things in odi cricket , 2 bad innings vs Afghanistan shouldn't have led to him being dropped considering the lack of batting depth that coach Walter picked , I mean that's the issue here,the squad picked for the conditions..Players have let us down too but you look at the balance of the squad and you got to question the coach it's a results business and the results are pathetic right now.

He does have a good ODI average and you probably right that's a bit unfair on him but I just think Rickelton is a better white-ball player than him if we looking at one or the other for wicket-keeper. I mean I know TdZ has started well but is he a better limited overs opener than Rickelton? No chance.

I'm with @Stefan9 @StephenZA in that we didn't plan well with Amla, Faf , Elgar, QdK still in the picture, so it's important the guys we truly back bat and learn with senior batsman like Bavuma/RvD and to an extent Reeza in these series'.

My frustration is we seemingly pick players and some get such a long string for whatever reason. We seem stuck with Mulder & Phehlukwayo.

It's also what M Jansen, Coetzee and to an extent Rabada/Maharaj bring in that they are capable of lower order run-makers.

 

[StephenZA]

I'm with @Stefan9 @StephenZA in that we didn't plan well with Amla, Faf , Elgar, QdK still in the picture, so it's important the guys we truly back bat and learn with senior batsman like Bavuma/RvD and to an extent Reeza in these series'.

My problem is that I don't think these guys are good enough and don't have the right stuff to pass on.

My opinion is that we pick our most talented youngsters, pick a coach that can deal with youngsters and throw them in the deep end and spend the next 4-8 years rebuilding cricket in SA. (Especially the FC cricket) Hopefully some of those youngsters learn and can start to pass their experience on in 6-10 years time and we won't make the same mistakes.

My frustration is we seemingly pick players and some get such a long string for whatever reason. We seem stuck with Mulder & Phehlukwayo.

It's also what M Jansen, Coetzee and to an extent Rabada/Maharaj bring in that they are capable of lower order run-makers.

I personally don't see Mulder having got a long string, been in and out consistently since he was 19 but never given a run in the team of consecutive matches until recently. Phehlukwayo was a hopeful player of colour that they still haven't found a replacement for.

But stick with them or not, I don't care. Pick a squad of 18 of the the most talented players under the age of 27/28 and and play those players constantly. There will be adjustment and changes. But still picking has-beens that are not going to change anything for the future of SA cricket.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

He does have a good ODI average and you probably right that's a bit unfair on him but I just think Rickelton is a better white-ball player than him if we looking at one or the other for wicket-keeper. I mean I know TdZ has started well but is he a better limited overs opener than Rickelton? No chance.

I'm with @Stefan9 @StephenZA in that we didn't plan well with Amla, Faf , Elgar, QdK still in the picture, so it's important the guys we truly back bat and learn with senior batsman like Bavuma/RvD and to an extent Reeza in these series'.

My frustration is we seemingly pick players and some get such a long string for whatever reason. We seem stuck with Mulder & Phehlukwayo.

It's also what M Jansen, Coetzee and to an extent Rabada/Maharaj bring in that they are capable of lower order run-makers.

Rickleton can play as a pure bat and Verreynne could keep the gloves and bat in the middle order in this current side .

Regarding Mulder and Phehlukwayo ..yeah I share your frustration 100%

 

[SeamUp]

My problem is that I don't think these guys are good enough and don't have the right stuff to pass on.

My opinion is that we pick our most talented youngsters, pick a coach that can deal with youngsters and throw them in the deep end and spend the next 4-8 years rebuilding cricket in SA. (Especially the FC cricket) Hopefully some of those youngsters learn and can start to pass their experience on in 6-10 years time and we won't make the same mistakes.

I personally don't see Mulder having got a long string, been in and out consistently since he was 19 but never given a run in the team of consecutive matches until recently. Phehlukwayo was a hopeful player of colour that they still haven't found a replacement for.

But stick with them or not, I don't care. Pick a squad of 18 of the the most talented players under the age of 27/28 and and play those players constantly. There will be adjustment and changes. But still picking has-beens that are not going to change anything for the future of SA cricket.

Bavuma and Rassie have their flaws but they've been okay to good international cricketers. Reeza for me, can't claim that and many of the players we've tried can't claim that. You know I've been fairly or unfairly harsh on Bavuma over the years and rightly so for our once high standards but the next gen need to be doing what these 2 are doing here & Breetzke did for a period in the last T20. They haven't had loads of chances but they've showed they can belong. Verreynne & De Zorzi to an extent too.

Mulder and Phehlukwayo's records are abysmal with lots of chances. Their roles are tough but surely there comes a point where we have to say they are not grabbing their chances? They've played more than those 5 above? It's not like on their day they are devastating and can win us a game in amongst the failures too.

 

[Dendarii]

He does have a good ODI average and you probably right that's a bit unfair on him but I just think Rickelton is a better white-ball player than him if we looking at one or the other for wicket-keeper. I mean I know TdZ has started well but is he a better limited overs opener than Rickelton? No chance.

It's also easier bringing Rickelton in as a direct replacement for for De Kock because he can open, which Verreynne doesn't do.

 

[SeamUp]

Just plain thick from Stubbs after Rickelton got out.