Ashwin vs Kumble

[OverratedSanity]

Yes. Tahir, Harmer and rookie Eng and Aus spinners are made to be genuine threats on such pitches.

Hmm, crappy spinners like Nicky Boje,Paul Adams took cheap 5fers here on occasion. If we're talking noob English spinners,why not mention shaun udal bowling a key spell to win a test. If Root took a 5fer then why not mention Michael Clarke and his 6fer.

Unless there is some integrity in these conversations I'll continue to look at you as a complete hackfraud. Nothing wrong with considering kumble better though.

 

[subshakerz]

Agree pitches for sa 2015 eng 2021(last three tests) and indore test were terrible but kumble also had doctored pitches

Yes Kumble had those pitches in the 90s, not 2000s.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Have seen little of kumble but have followed ash since his debut imo he averages 23 which is quite rare for spinners those who qoute his home performance's should also check his record in sl wi and ban he was one of rare bowlers to trouble great sangakkara and cook also had edge over smith and root during tours of aus 2020/21 and eng 2018 respectively ash is atg among asian spinners after legand murali

 

[subshakerz]

Hmm, crappy spinners like Nicky Boje,Paul Adams took cheap 5fers here on occasion. If we're talking noob English spinners,why not mention shaun udal bowling a key spell to win a test. If Root took a 5fer then why not mention Michael Clarke and his 6fer.

Unless there is some integrity in these conversations I'll continue to look at you as a complete hackfraud. Nothing wrong with considering kumble better though.

Difference between random match hauls and double digit series hauls by those later spinners. .

 

[Arachnodouche]

Even if he was somewhat functional as a 5th bowler, which is no guarantee given how spinners have fared in SA vs IND Tests recently, what is the merit in having him over Shardul Thakur and other such bowlers who get jury-rigged conditions to wobble seam around at a slightly faster pace? Be serious please.

Yeah, because we've never struggled to bowl out SA cheaply in the jury-rigged conditions of the last two tours with Ashwin in the side and the potential of a bowler with a significantly different arsenal wouldn't be worth investigating even if only in retrospect, right?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Difference between random match hauls and double digit series hauls by those later spinners.

Adams picked up 14 wickets @20. Dreadful bowler too.

 

[Xix2565]

Yeah, because we've never struggled to bowl out SA cheaply in the jury-rigged conditions of the last two tours with Ashwin in the side and the potential of a bowler with a significantly different arsenal wouldn't be worth investigating even if only in retrospect, right?

We did so without any real need for spin of any type. In fact in one Test on the worst pitch of the lot we went in without a single spinner along with SA. I really don't see where this idea that Kumble would be slightly more useful comes from. If it's because of games outside of Johannesburg/Cape Town/Centurion on more neutral pitches then Ashwin's rarely had that in SA.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Adams picked up 14 wickets @20. Dreadful bowler too.

That was more the initial befuddlement factor than anything. Became ridiculously easy to pick once ppl figured him out. Though the fact that he could get balls to land even remotely in the sector expected of a Test bowler, with * that * action, is worthy of respect of itself.

 

[subshakerz]

Adams picked up 14 wickets @20. Dreadful bowler too.

Great. Let's add Saqlain in the 90s too.

And you can match that with series this past decade by Tahir, Harmer, Lyon, Rehan, Hartley, Leach, Murphy, O'Keefe, Patel.

 

[OverratedSanity]

That was more the initial befuddlement factor than anything. Became ridiculously easy to pick once ppl figured him out. Though the fact that he could get balls to land even remotely in the sector expected of a Test bowler, with * that * action, is worthy of respect of itself.

Hapless Englishmen? I'm talking about his series in India in 1996 which had some shocking pitches that just crumbled into dust.

Edit: Oh wait you edited.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Great. Let's add Saqlain in the 90s too.

And you can match that with series this past decade by Tahir, Harmer, Lyon, Rehan, Hartley, Leach, Murphy, O'Keefe, Patel.

Wtf is Lyon doing in that group??

 

[OverratedSanity]

Wtf is Lyon doing in that group??

Dude's also adding spinners that averaged 35 odd here. I might as well add Kumar Dharmasena and Gavin Robertson as successful spinners in India in kumbles time if that's the path we're talking.

 

[CricAddict]

View attachment 41722
View attachment 41723
Those dastardly South Africans, never giving the quicks a chance.

Expecting a team to outperform the world's best spinners, while bowling at the world's best players of spin is not a good measure of if a ground turns.

This post is wrong on several aspects.

1. Maharaj took 7/32 against bd and not India. The contention is that rsa board prepares pitches unfavorable to spin when India play to neutralize India spinners.

2. I said both pace and spin. It is very obvious that those pitches favored only pace and why would anyone say otherwise

3. Again, if you had watched those series, you will not say with a straight face that that ground favored spin

4. Current Indian batsmen are not the world's best players of spin

 

[Bolo.]

We did so without any real need for spin of any type. In fact in one Test on the worst pitch of the lot we went in without a single spinner along with SA. I really don't see where this idea that Kumble would be slightly more useful comes from. If it's because of games outside of Johannesburg/Cape Town/Centurion on more neutral pitches then Ashwin's rarely had that in SA.

Kumble actually did better on the those pitches than he did on the others. He never played Centurion though, which might be the world's worst spin graveyard.

I think the length of the games are a major difference between them though. Ashwins games often ended in 3. Kumble's games often went to 5 days. Every deck is offering some turn by day 4/5.

 

[Bolo.]

This post is wrong on several aspects.

1. Maharaj took 7/32 against bd and not India. The contention is that rsa board prepares pitches unfavorable to spin when India play to neutralize India spinners.

2. I said both pace and spin. It is very obvious that those pitches favored only pace and why would anyone say otherwise

3. Again, if you had watched those series, you will not say with a straight face that that ground favored spin

4. Current Indian batsmen are not the world's best players of spin

This contention is wrong. It is the venues that make the difference. Maharaj takes a bit over 1 WPM @55 on the grounds Ashwin has played at. He takes close to 5 WPM @ 23 at the others.

India have not been great players of spin like in the past. But I would still call them the world's best. Their home averages are crazy high.

 

[honestbharani]

Honestly I think this flat pitch BS is really overplayed. Kumble got a ****ton of real turners at home (especially in the 90s) until the early 2000s. It's only in the last 4-5 years where he bowled on consistently flat decks.

Also the pitches Ashwin has bowled on overseas these days have overall been waaaaaayyy worse for spin than in kumbles time where there were occasional dry pitches everywhere and test matches went the full 5 days much more often which allowed spinners to come into the game. Pretty ridiculous that this gets ignored and the focus is only on their respective home pitches.

And the DRS stuff is offset by the 90s home umpiring.

 

[Arachnodouche]

And the DRS stuff is offset by the 90s home umpiring.

You saying Messrs Bansal, Venkat, and Jayaprakash weren't staunchly neutral?

Tbf to them, I think they wanted to be, but they just kinda sucked lol

 

[Shri]

Kumble has a few penetrative spells.

kumble has obviously penetrated something when it comes to you

 

[Shri]

kumble taking 10/74 at delhi has definitely traumatized and probably lobotomized subshakerz imo

 

[Xix2565]

I think the length of the games are a major difference between them though. Ashwins games often ended in 3. Kumble's games often went to 5 days. Every deck is offering some turn by day 4/5.

Because they're overloaded for pacers to end things quickly. Because of pitches being prepared that way. Some people fail to grasp this however.