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Ashwin vs Kumble

S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
OverratedSanity said:
Honestly I think this flat pitch BS is really overplayed. Kumble got a ****ton of real turners at home (especially in the 90s) until the early 2000s. It's only in the last 4-5 years where he bowled on consistently flat decks.

Also the pitches Ashwin has bowled on overseas these days have overall been waaaaaayyy worse for spin than in kumbles time where there were occasional dry pitches everywhere and test matches went the full 5 days much more often which allowed spinners to come into the game.
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Completely disagree here. We are talking flat pitches for like nearly half of Kumbles career. And the pitches in Eng, Pak and Aus in the 2000s were all flat.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
Because for plenty of times, he was useless. Ashwin was good at keeping things tight. Those few contributions in wins is the reason the advantage is slight.
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Ok we have different criteria then. I think you need a minimum wicket volume to justify this.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Xix2565 said:
It's hilarious that SA is even mentioned when literally a few pages ago it was shown how SA post 2015 decided to indulge in full blown pitch doctoring whenever India toured. Kumble would be just as useless on such tracks.
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Does the pitch doctoring argument only apply to SA away and not India at home?
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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subshakerz said:
And the pitches in Eng, Pak and Aus in the 2000s were all flat.
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Do you know how those "flat" pitches worked. They were flat primarily for the pacers but were dry and matches went the full distance,allowing spinners to get into the game. That's not the case now.
 
C

Calm_profit

State Vice-Captain
Xix2565 said:
It's hilarious that SA is even mentioned when literally a few pages ago it was shown how SA post 2015 decided to indulge in full blown pitch doctoring whenever India toured. Kumble would be just as useless on such tracks.
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This is just B.S take.Guys like Imran Tahir had taken 5 fer on those pitches.Im pretty sure Kumble would have taken more.
 
A

Arachnodouche

International Captain
Xix2565 said:
It's hilarious that SA is even mentioned when literally a few pages ago it was shown how SA post 2015 decided to indulge in full blown pitch doctoring whenever India toured. Kumble would be just as useless on such tracks.
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Kumble's MO was fundamentally different than Ashwin's. If anything the recent patches in SA would aid him more considering he was quicker/flatter through the air and could exploit inconsistencies in bounce better than any spinner of his time.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Arachnodouche said:
Kumble's MO was fundamentally different than Ashwin's. If anything the recent patches in SA would aid him more considering he was quicker/flatter through the air and could exploit inconsistencies in bounce better than any spinner of his time.
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Plus a bowler like Kumble who bowled quick and straight compared to most spinners would be a prime beneficiary of DRS imo.
 
X

Xix2565

International Regular
subshakerz said:
Does the pitch doctoring argument only apply to SA away and not India at home?
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Yes, because you'd have to be blind to look at the records of Indian pacers and think that they don't get any assistance from the surface. In fact if you were watching this recent Test vs Bangladesh, Bumrah/Siraj/Akash Deep all got noticeable seam movement and were pretty good overall across the match. Doesn't sound like they're having to overcome majestic odds to take wickets at a decent rate/economy.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Arachnodouche said:
Kumble's MO was fundamentally different than Ashwin's. If anything the recent patches in SA would aid him more considering he was quicker/flatter through the air and could exploit inconsistencies in bounce better than any spinner of his time.
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No chance imo. SA matches we've played just don't last long enough for that to be enough of a factor.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Xix2565 said:
Yes, because you'd have to be blind to look at the records of Indian pacers and think that they don't get any assistance from the surface. In fact if you were watching this recent Test vs Bangladesh, Bumrah/Siraj/Akash Deep all got noticeable seam movement and were pretty good overall across the match. Doesn't sound like they're having to overcome majestic odds to take wickets at a decent rate/economy.
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Because Indian pacers adapt well doesn't mean the pitches arent spin conducive, and some series where there was clear pitch doctoring of the level you blame SA for.
 
X

Xix2565

International Regular
Calm_profit said:
This is just B.S take.Guys like Imran Tahir had taken 5 fer on those pitches.Im pretty sure Kumble would have taken more.
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Tahir in one Test in SA vs India averaged 58. He has a better record in India than in SA ffs.
Arachnodouche said:
Kumble's MO was fundamentally different than Ashwin's. If anything the recent patches in SA would aid him more considering he was quicker/flatter through the air and could exploit inconsistencies in bounce better than any spinner of his time.
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Even if he was somewhat functional as a 5th bowler, which is no guarantee given how spinners have fared in SA vs IND Tests recently, what is the merit in having him over Shardul Thakur and other such bowlers who get jury-rigged conditions to wobble seam around at a slightly faster pace? Be serious please.
subshakerz said:
Because Indian pacers adapt well doesn't mean the pitches arent spin conducive, and some series where there was clear pitch doctoring of the level you blame SA for.
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Pitches being spin conducive =/= pitch doctoring or that pitches aren't conducive for pacers. And again, SA are far more extreme in this regard compared to India overall. So you have as usual no real point to make.
 
G

govinda indian fan

State Vice-Captain
subshakerz said:
Because Indian pacers adapt well doesn't mean the pitches arent spin conducive, and some series where there was clear pitch doctoring of the level you blame SA for.
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Agree pitches for sa 2015 eng 2021(last three tests) and indore test were terrible but kumble also had doctored pitches
 
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