Murali vs Ashwin ( home Test bowling )

[ma1978]

Is there any evidence for this? Murali didnt have somewhat remotely worldclass like Jadeja to partner with his career.

The average and the wpm

 

[Migara]

Ashwin needs absolute dust bowls to succeed. Now for most finger spinners, more spin friendly the turf, more dangerous they are. They rarely come to the point that further deterioration of pitch will not improve their chances. For wrist spinners and Murali, this point happens much earlier than finger spinners. Murali was good in turning it square on pitches where no others could get spin.

 

[subshakerz]

The average and the wpm

Muralis is better.

 

[ma1978]

Muralis is better.

Not where it matters

 

[ma1978]

Ashwin needs absolute dust bowls to succeed. Now for most finger spinners, more spin friendly the turf, more dangerous they are. They rarely come to the point that further deterioration of pitch will not improve their chances. For wrist spinners and Murali, this point happens much earlier than finger spinners. Murali was good in turning it square on pitches where no others could get spin.

Murali was worse than say Pragyan Ojha or Sairaj Bahutule in India

 

[Migara]

Murali was worse than say Pragyan Ojha or Sairaj Bahutule in India

Ojha or Bahutule did not bowl against the Indian lineup. When they bowled against a weaker Sri Lankan side they averaged 45 and 41.

And he did much better than Warne against India in every aspect.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Given the pitches in India the last decade, we need to mentally add 2-3 points to all averages there to get an idea of the norm they would have for regular SC spinning wickets.

This is overemphasised. The wickets have been spin friendly on average, however rank turners have objectively been very rare

 

[subshakerz]

This is overemphasised. The wickets have been spin friendly on average, however rank turners have objectively been very rare

Again, dont want to go down this road, but the occurrence of rank turners has been more common, and even regular turners often turn quicker in the game than in the past. Just look at the many away spinners with decent cheap hauls the past decade or so.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Again, dont want to go down this road, but the occurrence of rank turners has been more common, and even regular turners often turn quicker in the game than in the past. Just look at the many away spinners with decent cheap hauls the past decade or so.

The situations where Ashwin and Co have outperformed the spinners ridiculously like the recent series vs England are far more common

 

[OverratedSanity]

Murali is a better bowler than ashwin on literally every kind of surface.

 

[capt_Luffy]

"All Indian pitches are dust bowls and rank turners, unless when Indian team is batting, then they are roads"

 

[kyear2]

The situations where Ashwin and Co have outperformed the spinners ridiculously like the recent series vs England are far more common

Vast difference in the quality and experience of spinners.

 

[ma1978]

Vast difference in the quality and experience of spinners.

Yes - quality, this is the point

There’s zero case the India has been more spin friendly than the past (as evidenced by the strong performance of their pace bowlers). Their bowlers are just better

 

[ma1978]

So when Ashwin retires and someone wins in India, the narrative will be that India stopped preparing turners

 

[kyear2]

"All Indian pitches are dust bowls and rank turners, unless when Indian team is batting, then they are roads"

I'm not getting into this argument, but if you have a rank turner and the other team shows up with seamers, it is a road. No?

 

[Xix2565]

I'm not getting into this argument, but if you have a rank turner and the other team shows up with seamers, it is a road. No?

No because the behaviour of the ball on the pitch is what determines the type of pitch, not the idiocy of selectors or the talent gaps in teams.

 

[kyear2]

No because the behaviour of the ball on the pitch is what determines the type of pitch, not the idiocy of selectors or the talent gaps in teams.

The pace will have no effect, hence then why it could be deemed a road, you're pretending like I created the thought process.

 

[Xix2565]

The pace will have no effect, hence then why it could be deemed a road, you're pretending like I created the thought process.

Still doesn't make it a road though. The ball movement is what defines batting/bowling friendly wickets.

 

[subshakerz]

The situations where Ashwin and Co have outperformed the spinners ridiculously like the recent series vs England are far more common

Yes I don't deny that, mainly cas it's the home grounds. Just saying if rookie spinners from outside played in India in previous decades no way they are getting such returns. And no it's not just quality of bats.

 

[Xix2565]

Yes I don't deny that, mainly cas it's the home grounds. Just saying if rookie spinners from outside played in India in previous decades no way they are getting such returns. And no it's not just quality of bats.

Well yeah, because in previous decades they made it easy for rookie batters to milk runs.