Murali vs Ashwin ( home Test bowling )

[subshakerz]

Now now you don't need to play along here. Ashwin, for the most part, is really good away; but definitely not comparable to Murali.

Haha

 

[subshakerz]

I would really. For the last 10 years his away record is great except every where but SA. Has a near ATG SL tour vs Sanga and co., won two series winning matches in two separate Australia series and averages 28 in England. Pretty good imo. His Australia performance is bad if and only if you only go by his average only, which really doesn't makes much sense for a single country.

So Ashwin didn't exist as a bowler before ten years ago? And you count his record in England as 'great'?

And those matches in Aus were hardly 'won' by him in the conventional standard we just match-winning performances.

 

[capt_Luffy]

So Ashwin didn't exist as a bowler before ten years ago?

And those matches in Aus were hardly 'won' by him in the conventional standard we just match-winning performances.

There are things debating with you is pointless, and Ashwin's away record tops the list. Two bad series early on in his career is definitely not as valuable as winning two matches that won 2 separate series. If it was anyone but Ashwin, you would fawning over it and how they did better than Lyon in Australia.

 

[subshakerz]

There are things debating with you is pointless, and Ashwin's away record tops the list. Two bad series early on in his career is definitely not as valuable as winning two matches that won 2 separate series. If it was anyone but Ashwin, you would fawning over it and how they did better than Lyon in Australia.

Not really. I give Kumble plenty of credit. I just don't think we should be distorting normal standards of judging bowlers to accommodate Ashwin. Like you just hand-waving two entire series of stick he got in favor of a couple of iffy won matches to me says you are not judging him normally.

But yeah we're debated it before.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Not really. I give Kumble plenty of credit. I just don't think we should be distorting normal standards of judging bowlers to accommodate Ashwin. Like you just hand-waving two entire series of stick he got in favor of a couple of iffy won matches to me says you are not judging him normally.

But yeah we're debated it before.

Yeah, we have debated it before, and I found plenty of your points biased. Now the won matches are "iffy", while you have emphasized time and time again that spinners winning matches away and other times alright is more important than doing consistently average. Never do I see you talking that when discussing Ashwin in Australia. Or that he did better than Lyon. But again, done to dead and not really in the mood.

 

[OverratedSanity]

"Iffy won matches" lmao what an imbecile

 

[subshakerz]

"Iffy won matches" lmao what an imbecile

Because he clearly was a partial not decisive bowling factor in winning those games.

Of course, you dont seem to mind them mindlessly claiming 'Ash won the BG Trophy twice' but harp on this.

Yeah, we have debated it before, and I found plenty of your points biased. Now the won matches are "iffy", while you have emphasized time and time again that spinners winning matches away and other times alright is more important than doing consistently average. Never do I see you talking that when discussing Ashwin in Australia. Or that he did better than Lyon. But again, done to dead and not really in the mood.

I've called those good performances but his overall Aus record bad. Why am I wrong? I think you exaggerate his role in them because you see those games and trophies won as so important to negate multiple failed series. Same with you saying his record in England is great.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Because he clearly was a partial not decisive bowling factor in winning those games.

Of course, you dont seem to mind them mindlessly claiming 'Ash won the BG Trophy twice' but harp on this.



I've called those good performances but his overall Aus record bad. Why am I wrong? I think you exaggerate his role in them because you see those games and trophies won as so important to negate multiple failed series. Same with you saying his record in England is great.

Saying he wasn't decisive in the second series win especially is such ****.....

You're wrong because you time and again emphasize on spinners winning important matches away, and then Ashwin does that, wins two series but **** me he did bad in 2011 and 2014...... Yes, two series won negates two failed series in a court like Australia. And never called his record in England Great, but good. Saying it's bad, or as you have previously, like Laker in SA, is honestly a big reason why this convo is meaningless.

 

[subshakerz]

Saying he wasn't decisive in the second series win especially is such ****.....

He had an important spell in 1st innings Melbourne game sure but overall it falls short of Ashwin being decisive in that series.

You're wrong because you time and again emphasize on spinners winning important matches away, and then Ashwin does that, wins two series but **** me he did bad in 2011 and 2014...... Yes, two series won negates two failed series in a court like Australia. And never called his record in England Great, but good. Saying it's bad, or as you have previously, like Laker in SA, is honestly a big reason why this convo is meaningless.

The problem you can claim someone with Ashwin's returns 'won two series' I can tell I am not dealing with objective analysis anymore because you can't tell the difference between contributing to wins versus actually actually legitimately saying a bowler won a series.

You said Ashwin was great everywhere in the past 10 years. How was he great in England?

 

[capt_Luffy]

He had an important spell in 1st innings Melbourne game sure but overall it falls short of Ashwin being decisive in that series.


The problem you can claim someone with Ashwin's returns 'won two series' I can tell I am not dealing with objective analysis anymore because you can't tell the difference between contributing to wins versus actually actually legitimately saying a bowler won a series.

You said Ashwin was great everywhere in the past 10 years. How was he great in England?

If you think I am backing out because I lost this argument, completely fine by me; but not in the mood for this **** show right now.

 

[subshakerz]

If you think I am backing out because I lost this argument, completely fine by me; but not in the mood for this **** show right now.

All good bro. I back out too.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Because he clearly was a partial not decisive bowling factor in winning those games.

Of course, you dont seem to mind them mindlessly claiming 'Ash won the BG Trophy twice' but harp on this.

Dude, I didn't read this post, but you're actually so stupid that I'd rather just insult you and call you names at this point.

 

[Coronis]

Dude, I didn't read this post, but you're actually so stupid that I'd rather just insult you and call you names at this point.

 

[subshakerz]

Dude, I didn't read this post, but you're actually so stupid that I'd rather just insult you and call you names at this point.

I don't think I ever insulted you though, but continue if you wish...

 

[honestbharani]

Biased idiots cant handle the fact that Ash is an ATG spinner, bowler and player in tests.


Always fun to see the salt pile.

 

[shortpitched713]

I think Ashwin is an ATG bowler and cricketer and am one of his biggest supporters here.


That said, Murali is EASILY the greatest spinner to have played this game. I dont think this comparison makes any sense. Ash is in the conversation for the 3rd greatest spinner of all time. But comparing him to the top 2 is just silly. Both, and especially Murali, were just much better.

How about just at home though?

 

[Arachnodouche]

Ashwin's won India more games single-handedly at home than Murali ever did. "Single-handedly" needs to be qualified obviously because no bowler operates in a vacuum independent of conditions and his teammates - besides, India simply get to play more cricket than SL ever did - but even so he's been a monstrous difference-maker at home.

 

[subshakerz]

Ashwin's won India more games single-handedly at home than Murali ever did. "Single-handedly" needs to be qualified obviously because no bowler operates in a vacuum independent of conditions and his teammates - besides, India simply get to play more cricket than SL ever did - but even so he's been a monstrous difference-maker at home.

Is there any evidence for this? Murali didnt have somewhat remotely worldclass like Jadeja to partner with his career.

 

[subshakerz]

Given the pitches in India the last decade, we need to mentally add 2-3 points to all averages there to get an idea of the norm they would have for regular SC spinning wickets.

 

[ma1978]

Given the pitches in India the last decade, we need to mentally add 2-3 points to all averages there to get an idea of the norm they would have for regular SC spinning wickets.

There’s zero evidence to this, in fact, it’s been a record environment for pace bowlers.