Gavaskar Vs Murali Vs Kapil Dev

[Pap Finn Keighl]

SL would have been way better served even with a Aaqib Javed. However Murali is irreplicable.

Even India will drop Kapil Dev in a heartbeat for Donald, because that is what we lack.

Donald instead of Murali - More strength to SL's bowling
Donald instead of Kapil - More strength to bowling, huge reduction in batting quality.

Only team, to prefer Donald over Kapil would be Donald's own SA of 90s, due to the presence of Klusner, Pollock, Kallis and Cronje.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I didn't see/don't remember too much of Kapil. Saw enough of Afridi to not be too impressed by the consistency that averaging 24 brings. Handy, and sometimes spectacular at those SRs, but very unreliable.

Klusener as a bowler was vaguely tolerable by specialist standards. Kapil would not be anywhere near this level for me as a bat, but it's unfair to judge him by these standards as it wasn't his role. Klusener was outstanding by 5th bowler standards (although this is arguably more true of Kapil's batting in relation to the average full load bowler).

ATG team calculations are a bit different. Not my preferred way of judging players.

Anyway, I won't argue that Klusener was definitively better in the weaker discipline. I find the case for Kapil to be very reasonable. I do think that stating that Klusener was nowhere near Kapil is pretty wrong though.

Klusner's entire career lasted just 8 years.

1982-1989
Border 32 at 73
Srikanth 29 at 72
Ramees Raja 31 at 64
Salim Malik 33 at 86
Boon 34 at 68
Crowe 34 at 75
Gower 33 at 78
Shastri 29 at 66
Azhar 31 at 68
Ranatunga 29 at 75
Amarnath 32 at 58
De Silva 30 at 77
Ijaz 22 at 83

Kapil 28 at 103

There is a reason, why Kapil ranked best ODI batsman of India for the decade 80s.

 

[trundler]

Saleem Malik was pretty good before the fixing, hey

 

[ma1978]

Next thing we know. Migara will start posting about Thisara Perera vs Kapil Dev. Least credible poster here. And no, India would not have taken Alan Donald over Kapil Dev.

 

[howitzer]

Saleem Malik was pretty good before the fixing, hey

He was a bloody good batsman in both formats. It's a shame he had to ruin his legacy and, to a lesser extent his record with such serial manipulation.

 

[sayon basak]

Next thing we know. Migara will start posting about Thisara Perera vs Kapil Dev.

Thisara Perera averages 59.4 in tests! (with the ball)

 

[Bolo.]

I missed all of Kapil's and most of Afridi's careers, but believe most people don't really have a huge problem with Kapil's consistency with the bat, unlike Afridi. One argument definitely is he played in an earlier, lower scoring era so a 23 avg was more tolerable as was a 95 SR valuable. Also, Afridi opened plenty, Dev batted almost solely down the order. And according to my father atleast (not like he himself watched Kapil's whole career), he was better than a number of other Indian bats of his time, if not all but Azhar. I mean, Srikkanth was India's one of the main ODI batsman and he averaged 28 odd. Kapil also had a number of klutch performances, like the 175. Again, it's not really clear cut and thier values will vary from team to team.

I think perception of role has more to do with the difference in how they were seen than anything. People had a persistent impression that Afridi was a batting AR. Anyway, I think he had the talent (and often enough balls) to bat a bit more responsibly, and he would have been a bit better with a higher average and lower SR. Kapil also had the talent. Not sure if he had enough time. If not he was underutilized.

 

[Migara]

Donald instead of Murali - More strength to SL's bowling
Donald instead of Kapil - More strength to bowling, huge reduction in batting quality.

Only team, to prefer Donald over Kapil would be Donald's own SA of 90s, due to the presence of Klusner, Pollock, Kallis and Cronje.

India could always find better bats than Kapil. The impact Donald brings to India would have been more than Kapil as al all rounder. Heck, if I wanted a player to be in SL ODI side, it would be Murali first, then Donald and Kapil last.
Murali's impact as a bowler is more than Donald, and there had been no ODI spinner who had that impact to replace him in world cricket, let alone in SL. So you are clutching straws.

 

[Migara]

Klusner's entire career lasted just 8 years.

1982-1989
Border 32 at 73
Srikanth 29 at 72
Ramees Raja 31 at 64
Salim Malik 33 at 86
Boon 34 at 68
Crowe 34 at 75
Gower 33 at 78
Shastri 29 at 66
Azhar 31 at 68
Ranatunga 29 at 75
Amarnath 32 at 58
De Silva 30 at 77
Ijaz 22 at 83

Kapil 28 at 103

There is a reason, why Kapil ranked best ODI batsman of India for the decade 80s.

The numbers you have omitted

Haynes 45 @ 64
Richards 47@ 92
Miandad 48 @ 70
Greenidge 46 @ 68
Jones 46 @ 76
Abbas 49 @ 90
Sidhu 41 @ 72
Lloyd 42 @ 80

That is why Kapil is a good ODI batsman for India only. He is not even in sub continent to start with, and he is not the best of the bowlers in the sub continent. That is why in an ATG XI sides he can be easily replaced with specialists.

 

[Migara]

Thisara Perera averages 59.4 in tests! (with the ball)

Some people are butt hurt it seems.

 

[capt_Luffy]

India could always find better bats than Kapil. The impact Donald brings to India would have been more than Kapil as al all rounder. Heck, if I wanted a player to be in SL ODI side, it would be Murali first, then Donald and Kapil last.
Murali's impact as a bowler is more than Donald, and there had been no ODI spinner who had that impact to replace him in world cricket, let alone in SL. So you are clutching straws.

Not it wouldn't. Kapil was India's best bowler by a mile AND best batsman in ODIs throughout the 80s. Donald can't bring enough there to outplay him.

 

[Migara]

Not it wouldn't. Kapil was India's best bowler by a mile AND best batsman in ODIs throughout the 80s. Donald can't bring enough there to outplay him.

It is like some one saying Shakib is the better player because he is the best batsman and bowler of Bangladesh compared to Dale Steyn. That is how ridiculous the claim is. Kapil Dev was not even in top 10 with the bat, nor top 5 with the ball. Hence he was not a player who made a regular impact, against class opponents.

 

[capt_Luffy]

It is like some one saying Shakib is the better player because he is the best batsman and bowler of Bangladesh compared to Dale Steyn. That is how ridiculous the claim is. Kapil Dev was not even in top 10 with the bat, nor top 5 with the ball. Hence he was not a player who made a regular impact, against class opponents.

Excuse moi but Shakib is without a shadow of a doubt a better player than Steyn in ODIs.
As for Kapil and Donald, did you really wrote him not being Top 10 bat or Top 5 ball as a point against him; as if an all rounder who is a Top 20 bat (probably the best at his position) and Top 10 ball of his time isn't exceptionally important? Kapil made plenty of difference in ODIs, including the 83 WC.

 

[Migara]

Excuse moi but Shakib is without a shadow of a doubt a better player than Steyn in ODIs.
As for Kapil and Donald, did you really wrote him not being Top 10 bat or Top 5 ball as a point against him; as if an all rounder who is a Top 20 bat (probably the best at his position) and Top 10 ball of his time isn't exceptionally important? Kapil made plenty of difference in ODIs, including the 83 WC.

I don't rate balanced all rounders in ODI game. WI won two WCs, SL won a WC, Australia few more with out balanced all rounders. They had specialists who were so good, and who can bat or ball to a reasonable level. For example Shane Watson's numbers looks imperious, but he neither was a top bat not a ball. I don't expect Watson to deliver against difficult oppositions in either of his disciplines. if you take Pollock or Jayasuriya for example, I am pretty sure they are going to deliver against the tough oppositions with their primary disciplines.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I don't rate balanced all rounders in ODI game. WI won two WCs, SL won a WC, Australia few more with out balanced all rounders. They had specialists who were so good, and who can bat or ball to a reasonable level. For example Shane Watson's numbers looks imperious, but he neither was a top bat not a ball. I don't expect Watson to deliver against difficult oppositions in either of his disciplines. if you take Pollock or Jayasuriya for example, I am pretty sure they are going to deliver against the tough oppositions with their primary disciplines.

Then that's a very much you problem as balance all rounders are a huge ODI asset. Let's agree to disagree on that.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I don't rate balanced all rounders in ODI game. WI won two WCs, SL won a WC, Australia few more with out balanced all rounders. They had specialists who were so good, and who can bat or ball to a reasonable level. For example Shane Watson's numbers looks imperious, but he neither was a top bat not a ball. I don't expect Watson to deliver against difficult oppositions in either of his disciplines. if you take Pollock or Jayasuriya for example, I am pretty sure they are going to deliver against the tough oppositions with their primary disciplines.

You shouldn't rate ATG pacers as well, India and SL won WCs without one.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

The numbers you have omitted

Haynes 45 @ 64
Richards 47@ 92
Miandad 48 @ 70
Greenidge 46 @ 68
Jones 46 @ 76
Abbas 49 @ 90
Sidhu 41 @ 72
Lloyd 42 @ 80

That is why Kapil is a good ODI batsman for India only. He is not even in sub continent to start with, and he is not the best of the bowlers in the sub continent. That is why in an ATG XI sides he can be easily replaced with specialists.

There were 10 or more non Indian bats in my list, including DeSilva and Ranatunga.

You brought world's best batsmen to compare with a bowling AR.. And even then the difference in SR is HUGE ( bar 2/3 ).

 

[Migara]

You shouldn't rate ATG pacers as well, India and SL won WCs without one.

India may have, but SL had Vaas. Rated in top 10 in a recent statistical analysis. So you need to get your facts correct.

 

[capt_Luffy]

India may have, but SL had Vaas. Rated in top 10 in a recent statistical analysis. So you need to get your facts correct.

It's a stretch to call Vaas an ATG ODI pacer, one I am not ready to make.......

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

India may have, but SL had Vaas. Rated in top 10 in a recent statistical analysis. So you need to get your facts correct.

If Vaas is an entry level ATG bowler , Kapil is top tier ATG bowler.