The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Coronis]

Imo, WI middle order is better than the Australian one:

Bradman
Smith
Chappell
Miller

Headley
Lara
Richards
Sobers

Have you not been paying attention to the teams he and I posted that we are discussing?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Have you not been paying attention to the teams he and I posted that we are discussing?

I have seen those, and I am not talking about a team in which Lloyd is over Headley. I am talking in the best ATG team, WI actually has an equally good if not better (on including Miller) middle order than Australia.

 

[CricketFan90s]

I have seen those, and I am not talking about a team in which Lloyd is over Headley. I am talking in the best ATG team, WI actually has an equally good if not better (on including Miller) middle order than Australia.

As captain Lloyd had an average of 51 and scored more runs than Headley. You need to know the importance of having a good captain that makes a hug difference. Just to have a good team on paper wont win matches.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Yeah Dujon averaged 30… Gilchrist averaged 47. Gayle was a good opener, but he’s not on the level of Simpson, Hayden or Greenidge. Sure Lloyd’s stats look decent compared to Australia’s bats or the rest of the Windies if you cut out a third of his career, but so do many batsmen’s lol. Sure, Sobers is ok, and Gayle is there, but it still doesn’t compare.

Why can’t you accept that Australia have better openers, a better middle order, a better keeper bat and a better spin attack? Stop digging in and trying to irrationally claim your Windies team is better and accept you made a mistake.

It’s not a mistake it’s better understanding of how to create a deadly team. You are just going with statistics. But I am taking into consideration the additional factors which help WI defeat this team.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Australia XI : 1) Bob Simpson 2) Matthew Hayden 3) Don Bradman 4) Greg Chappell 5) Steve Waugh (c) 6) Allan Border 7) Adam Gilchrist + 8) Keith Miller 9) Shane Warne 10) Dennis Lillee 11) Glenn McGrath - This Team is the right team to survive West Indies deadly trio of Marshall, Garner and Ambrose.

 

[Coronis]

It’s not a mistake it’s better understanding of how to create a deadly team. You are just going with statistics. But I am taking into consideration the additional factors which help WI defeat this team.

What additional factors? Inferiority everywhere except pace bowling? Australia have a great captain too.

I have seen those, and I am not talking about a team in which Lloyd is over Headley. I am talking in the best ATG team, WI actually has an equally good if not better (on including Miller) middle order than Australia.

Well again, thats not the point I’m arguing on with him. And nah, Miller should not be included. Diminishing returns as a 5th bowler, not good enough to be a top 6 bat in an ATG context.

Australia XI : 1) Bob Simpson 2) Matthew Hayden 3) Don Bradman 4) Steve Smith 5) Steve Waugh (c) 6) Allan Border 7) Adam Gilchrist + 8) Keith Miller 9) Shane Warne 10) Dennis Lillee 11) Glenn McGrath - This Team is the right team to survive West Indies deadly trio of Marshall, Garner and Ambrose.

lol.

 

[CricketFan90s]

What additional factors? Inferiority everywhere except pace bowling? Australia have a great captain too.



Well again, thats not the point I’m arguing on with him. And nah, Miller should not be included. Diminishing returns as a 5th bowler, not good enough to be a top 6 bat in an ATG context.




lol.

Keith Miller bowled an average of 18 overs per innings and Ray Lindwall bowled an average of 20 overs per innings as both were having an average of 23. So those extra overs can be covered by Steve Waugh and bob Simpson and we can have a good no 8 batsmen to assist Gilchrist. McGrath, Lillee, Warne, Miller, Waugh, Simpson, Border What more you want for this team ?

 

[Prince EWS]

Doesn’t make them unbeatable nor without weakness.

#weakness

@trundler

 

[Coronis]

Keith Miller bowled an average of 18 overs per innings and Ray Lindwall bowled an average of 20 overs per innings as both were having an average of 23. So those extra overs can be covered by Steve Waugh and bob Simpson and we can have a good no 8 batsmen to assist Gilchrist. McGrath, Lillee, Warne, Miller, Waugh, Simpson, Border What more you want for this team ?

A better 3rd pacer. Respectfully, Miller is not on Lindwall or Davidson’s level. You are just going with statistics. But I am taking into consideration the additional factors which help Australia defeat this team.

 

[CricketFan90s]

A better 3rd pacer. Respectfully, Miller is not on Lindwall or Davidson’s level. You are just going with statistics. But I am taking into consideration the additional factors which help Australia defeat this team.

That is what I am saying Miller is a 3rd pacer and also very effective. Even players like Hutton used to say he was more dangerous than Lindwall. When you have a spinner like Warne and long spell bowler like McGrath and fighter like Lillee, you can take a chance to include miller as 3rd bowler who was almost as good as Lindwall. And an important information he was the opening bowler for most of his career sharing new ball with lindwall. So he was not even a 3 rd bowler in his era.

 

[CricketFan90s]

1st position	1946-1956	7	11	1395	553	28	5/72	10/152	19.75	2.37	49.8	2	1
2nd position	1946-1956	33	60	6889	2580	104	7/60	9/77	24.80	2.24	66.2	3	0
3rd position	1947-1953	8	14	1127	387	24	5/26	7/83	16.12	2.06	46.9	2	0
4th position	1946-1953	4	6	678	263	9	3/50	3/97	29.22	2.32	75.3	0	0
5th position	1955-1955	1	2	264	98	5	3/62	5/98	19.60	2.22	52.8	0	0
6th position	1948-1948	2	2	108	25	0	-	-	-	1.38	-	0	0

Miller was an Opening Bowler and not a 3rd Bowler in his time. In this team his role is reduced to a 3rd bowler as McGrath and Lillee will take care of New ball spells.

 

[Coronis]

That is what I am saying Miller is a 3rd pacer and also very effective. Even players like Hutton used to say he was more dangerous than Lindwall. When you have a spinner like Warne and long spell bowler like McGrath and fighter like Lillee, you can take a chance to include miller as 3rd bowler who was almost as good as Lindwall. And an important information he was the opening bowler for most of his career sharing new ball with lindwall. So he was not even a 3 rd bowler in his era.

Even more ignorant than first suspected. Miller is not good enough to be the third pacer in an ATG Aussie side. Same way Lloyd isn’t good enough to be in the WI ATG side.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Richie Benauds Greatest XI

Opening batsmen	• Jack Hobbs England • Sunil Gavaskar India
Number 3	• Don Bradman Australia (Captain)
Numbers 4 and 5	• Viv Richards West Indies • Sachin Tendulkar India
All-rounders	• Gary Sobers West Indies • Imran Khan Pakistan
Wicket-keeper	• Adam Gilchrist Australia
Spin bowlers	• Shane Warne Australia
Fast bowlers	• Dennis Lillee Australia • Sydney Barnes England

twelfth man: Keith Miller

Australia

The Same Formula i have employed 2 openers - Simpson, Hayden, A strong No 3 - Bradman, 2 Players as middle order batsmen - Chappell, Waugh

batting allrounder : border in that place but simpson, waugh and Chappell all 4 can full fill the bowling side of this role.
bowling allrounder : keith miller, spinner : warne, 2 fast bowlers : lillee and mcgrath.

You look more ignorant unable to understand what makes a balanced team.

 

[CricketFan90s]

My Australia XI
1) Bob Simpson - Bowler
2) Matthew Hayden
3) Don Bradman
4) Greg Chappell - Bowler
5) Steve Waugh (c) - Bowler
6) Allan Border - Bowler
7) Adam Gilchrist +
8) Keith Miller - Bowler
9) Shane Warne - Bowler
10) Dennis Lillee - Bowler
11) Glenn McGrath - Bowler

8 Batsmen and 8 Bowlers

 

[CricketFan90s]

Even more ignorant than first suspected. Miller is not good enough to be the third pacer in an ATG Aussie side. Same way Lloyd isn’t good enough to be in the WI ATG side.

Someone made me a State 12th man from U19 Captain, when i am trying to put you right argument you need to look at different perspective which is superior and don't need to feel offended.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Even more ignorant than first suspected. Miller is not good enough to be the third pacer in an ATG Aussie side. Same way Lloyd isn’t good enough to be in the WI ATG side.

Miller is just fulfilling the role of a bowling allrounder in the team and the new ball will be shared by lillee and mcgrath so it wont make any difference.

 

[Coronis]

Someone made me a State 12th man from U19 Captain, when i am trying to put you right argument you need to look at different perspective which is superior and don't need to feel offended.

Quite an accomplishment, you must be very proud.

Yep very offended here. Please don’t hurt my feelings anymore.

Miller is just fulfilling the role of a bowling allrounder in the team and the new ball will be shared by lillee and mcgrath so it wont make any difference.

Do you watch cricket? You need 3 frontline pacers and 1 spinner, even India conforms to this at home sometimes nowadays. The difference between the team you’re proposing and Benaud’s, is that Imran was a top tier ATG bowler and Miller is not. Lets not pretend Benaud is an infallible selector either… some of his choices and exclusions for his shortlist are quite questionable.

You don’t choose a bowling allrounder as well as 6 middle order players and a keeper unless you’re not compromising on bowling quality, which you are by choosing Miller in that position.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Quite an accomplishment, you must be very proud.

Yep very offended here. Please don’t hurt my feelings anymore.



Do you watch cricket? You need 3 frontline pacers and 1 spinner, even India conforms to this at home sometimes nowadays. The difference between the team you’re proposing and Benaud’s, is that Imran was a top tier ATG bowler and Miller is not. Lets not pretend Benaud is an infallible selector either… some of his choices and exclusions for his shortlist are quite questionable.

You don’t choose a bowling allrounder as well as 6 middle order players and a keeper unless you’re not compromising on bowling quality, which you are by choosing Miller in that position.

Miller played the role of imran in 1950s he has a pretty good average and bowled 18 overs per innings to be considered a good choice as a 3 rd pace bowler. If he was like Abdul Razzaq or Shane Watson I could taken your suggestion seriously. He Bowled 18 overs per innings and maintained an average of less than 23 that is a world class figures. Looks like your arrogance plays a huge role in your decision making. Even Mainstream bowlers like Waqar Younis bowled only 17 overs per innings. When Keith Miller retired he was the 3rd highest wicket taker for Australia behind Grimmett and Lindwall (grimmett was anyway spinner).

 

[CricketFan90s]

In Ashes

RR Lindwall (AUS)

1946-1959

29

51

6728

-

216

2559

114

7/63

22.44

2.28

59.01

3

6

KR Miller (AUS)

1946-1956

29

48

5717

-

225

1949

87

7/60

22.40

2.04

65.71

6

3

DK Lillee (AUS)

1971-1982

24

47

6998

-

302

2858

128

7/89

22.32

2.45

54.67

8

7

GD McGrath (AUS)

1994-2007

30

60

7280

1213.2

331

3286

157

8/38

20.92

2.70

46.36

7

10

AK Davidson (AUS)

1953-1963

25

45

5993

-

221

1996

84

6/64

23.76

1.99

71.34

2

5

@Coronis - Miller is a Boon not a Bane to Australia All Time XI

 

[Qlder]

Let me try and make an All Time World Cup team with one player from each Cup:

1. Sachin Tendulkar (2003)
2. Martin Crowe (1992) (c)
3. Kumar Sangakkara (2011) (wk)
4. Viv Richards (1979)
5. Aravinda De Silva (1996)
6. Shakib Al Hasan (2019)
7. Lance Klusner (1999)
8. Kapil Dev (1983)
9. Mitchell Starc (2015)
10. Mohammad Shami (2023)
11. Mutthiah Muralitharan (2007)

Subs:
1. Imran Khan (1987)
2. Glenn Turner (1975)

You've done a great job here. I've tried to get Kohli (2023) and McGrath (2007) in as player of the tournaments those years but can't find the team balance

Edit: I forgot about the subs. So instead of Shami you can put Kohli (2023) in at 5 with De Silva (1996) becoming a sub with Imran (1987) to bowl