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Do SC Pacers Deserve More Credit For Home Performances?

B

Bolo.

International Captain
subshakerz said:
It's not like it reverses from the get go, you have to wait mid innings. And it takes exceptional skill to do it at high pace. And let's leave aside the fact that they were literally pioneering a new skill. Again, your whole narrative is to just downplay how much preferable being a pacer in other countries outside SC is.



We already judge away records on their own merits. You are the one using them to downgrade home performances.

Ntini on greentops is a bogus example.
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My point is to look past the simplistic take of Asia bad for pace and ROW bad. We all know it's typically true. I've mentioned it a few times. Don't throw your toys about there being nuance in types of pace and the conditions they work in.

You think Pak bowlers had it tough at home. So the 2 best modern quicks at home, plus someone who might be as high as 3rd, playing together.

Or maybe they had it easier on home pitches than you are suggesting?

A good way to test this is to see if they are the best bowlers. Look at away records to remove question marks over pitch difficulty.
 
Migara

Migara

International Coach
Burgey said:
FMD I had the misfortune of watching India and Pakistan tour here in the 70s and early 80s. It was horrific to watch, and that's coming from someone who mainlined cricket as a kid. FMD they lost to a WSC era Aus side captained by a 40 something bloke who came out of playing grade cricket. It was 47 years ago and I still resent having to watch that dirge.
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Cannot be as bad as England getting ass raped in 90s in SC.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Bolo. said:
My point is to look past the simplistic take of Asia bad for pace and ROW bad. We all know it's typically true. I've mentioned it a few times. Don't throw your toys about there being nuance in types of pace and the conditions they work in.
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Well if it's true then give the bowlers extra credit. That's all were asking but you're stuck in the old ways, just mentioning it as a cliche but denying it in reality.

Bolo. said:
You think Pak bowlers had it tough at home. So the 2 best modern quicks at home, plus someone who might be as high as 3rd, playing together.

Or maybe they had it easier on home pitches than you are suggesting?
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Youre exaggerating the other cases sorry. I don't think WI was tough for pacers overall in the 90s. At the very least it had several pace friendly grounds.

Bolo. said:
A good way to test this is to see if they are the best bowlers. Look at away records to remove question marks over pitch difficulty.
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Again, stop doing this. We do exhaustive away analysis already. We don't need to be petty in suggesting that the figures SC pacers have would actually be a bit better overall once we adjust for pitch quality.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
HouHsiaoHsien said:
Bro check the context. Im talking in relation of the Kapil vs Broad overall.
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Ok but do you acknowledge Kapil is better than Broad at home?

Kapil spends 15 years slaving away on Indian dust bowls to get 26.5 and ends up being beat by a kid known for saving his best for greentop spells.
 
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H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
Perhaps since their records are similar at home, and Kapil bowled in a tougher place. But if say Broad succeeded in India, Kapil’s home advantage point won’t make much difference
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
HouHsiaoHsien said:
Perhaps since their records are similar at home, and Kapil bowled in a tougher place. But if say Broad succeeded in India, Kapil’s home advantage point won’t make much difference
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Yet Kapil's is a much bigger percentage of his career and that reflects in their overall average.

But hey at least you would acknowledge that Kapil is better at home, that's a start. Many posters won't do that because Broad had so many memorable greentop spells.
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
HouHsiaoHsien said:
Perhaps since their records are similar at home, and Kapil bowled in a tougher place. But if say Broad succeeded in India, Kapil’s home advantage point won’t make much difference
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The good thing is atleast it will be tough for people to accuse you of a Pakpassion agenda henceforth
 
A

Arachnodouche

International Captain
Sure they do but it's also a function of being familiar with what length to bowl on slow, low pitches, how to maintain the ball at least in days past when such "skills" were more mysterious. And that familiarity is as much a factor in them being good as it is for Anderson and Broad in England, however unfavorable the wickets may appear from the outside looking in. The challenge as ever is adapting to more foreign conditions. Which is why someone like Umesh for eg. will never be regarded an unequivocally good bowler.
 
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