Do SC Pacers Deserve More Credit For Home Performances?

[HouHsiaoHsien]

And still be hailed as an English great like Broad is.

Just like Kapil is an Indian great and nothing more as a bowler

 

[ankitj]

Any average adjustments are based on hypotheticals. If we cut SC seamers' averages because of conditions, we should increase SC spinners' averages for similar reasons.

I don't mind this at all

bc this was your ulterior motive in starting this thread? You got so many Indian posters to support you. Genius, I must say.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes . No one rates him in top 5 fast bowlers .

I believe that's the majority consensus outside of CW. And everyone rates him as a Top 10

 

[capt_Luffy]

Who knows? Their style and approach to bowling would be completely different

That's the point. We give Warne extra points above Murali in home, despite sucking in friendlier conditions in India. I think that applies to Kapil too.

 

[Slifer]

If SC was easier we would have more pacers with better averages.

Pakistan has the following:

Wasim
Imran
Fazal
Akhtar
Waqar
Asif

Wi for example have

Marshall
Holding
Ambrose
Walsh
Roberts
Bishop
Croft
Garner

Those are the pacemen for each country who both have taken at least 100 wickets and averaged around 25 and under. 6 vs 8. And Pakistan still currently has Shaheen and Abbas; WI: trash.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

That's the point. We give Warne extra points above Murali in home, despite sucking in friendlier conditions in India. I think that applies to Kapil too.

Because he succeeds in SL too. And Murali sucks in Aus. Kapil is great at home but sucks in Broad’s home conditions. If Warne sucked in SL I wouldn’t give him home points against Murali

 

[capt_Luffy]

Because he succeeds in SL too. And Murali sucks in Aus. Kapil is great at home but sucks in Broad’s home conditions

Yeah, but tell me honestly; had Warne played in India his whole life; would he had been worse than Kumble?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah, but tell me honestly; had Warne played in India his whole life; would he had been worse than Kumble?

Would've been smashed around in school level cricket by random Indian n00bs and would've never even made it to ranji level imo

 

[Slifer]

How do you think Lillee you had done if he was born in Pakistan?? Or Trueman in West Indies?? Or Warne in India???

Warne wouldn't have to face Indian batting so I'd assume his average would lower a couple runs.

Lillee, tough to say, he played 3 tests in Pakistan, which are too few to draw any definitive conclusions (3<<13).

Trueman wouldn't be playing in English conditions but he also wouldn't have to face West indies insane batting on wickets familiar to the batsmen. Therefore he'd probably go similar to his current stats

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Yeah, but tell me honestly; had Warne played in India his whole life; would he had been worse than Kumble?

So Warne’s aruguement if worse home pitches doesn’t work against Kumble specifically

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

I’m just saying in a specific Broad vs Kapil matchup, Kapil’s SC point of having worse home pitches doesn’t count, cause if he bowled in Eng, he would’ve been bad

 

[capt_Luffy]

Warne wouldn't have to face Indian batting so I'd assume his average would lower a couple runs.

Lillee, tough to say, he played 3 tests in Pakistan, which are too few to draw any definitive conclusions (3<<13).

Trueman wouldn't be playing in English conditions but he also wouldn't have to face West indies insane batting on wickets familiar to the batsmen. Therefore he'd probably go similar to his current stats

Who knows? He wouldn’t be the same bowler as he was an Australian

That's the whole point. Whatever you can assume, you can't totally justify his 40+ average in India; and that pretty much is applicable to Kapil as well. Had he had been English, his bowling which was more suitable for there, would had adapted for it.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I’m just saying in a specific Broad vs Kapil matchup, Kapil’s SC point of having worse home pitches doesn’t count, cause if he bowled in Eng, he would’ve been bad

Broad for that matter averages 61 in India, 47 in SL and around 40 in Bangladesh.....

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Broad for that matter averages 61 in India, 47 in SL and around 40 in Bangladesh.....

Yes so it’s close.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Actually I’d got for Kapil cause of his great record in Aus and WI perhaps, not cause of the SC argument tho

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

That's the whole point. Whatever you can assume, you can't totally justify his 40+ average in India; and that pretty much is applicable to Kapil as well. Had he had been English, his bowling which was more suitable for there, would had adapted for it.

I revised my comment on that.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Actually I’d got for Kapil cause of his great record in Aus and WI perhaps, not cause of the SC argument tho

I still think it's easier for pacers, especially medium pacers in England than India; as it's for spinners in India than Australia.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

I still think it's easier for pacers, especially medium pacers in England than India; as it's for spinners in India than Australia.

That I agree with. I’m just saying in certain situations that argument doesn’t work very well

 

[ataraxia]

I still think it's easier for pacers, especially medium pacers in England than India; as it's for spinners in India than Australia.

 

[subshakerz]

Pakistan has the following:

Wasim
Imran
Fazal
Akhtar
Waqar
Asif

Wi for example have

Marshall
Holding
Ambrose
Walsh
Roberts
Bishop
Croft
Garner

Those are the pacemen for each country who both have taken at least 100 wickets and averaged around 25 and under. 6 vs 8. And Pakistan still currently has Shaheen and Abbas; WI: trash.

I would include Wes Hall for WI. WI still have more, especially over 200 wickets which most Pak bowlers have broken down before reaching and Pak is the best SC country, forget India and SL.