Does Jadeja make your India ATG XI?

[kyear2]

Unfortunately, that is not how cricket is played. If not for a fairly mediocre Qadir, most people would assume Viv would have smashed Warne. Uncovered pitches BS needs a quiet burial too.

Are you suggesting that Sehwag was better than Hobbs and Hutton?

 

[kyear2]

Sehwag, Kapil and Jadeja have all made runs against great attacks. Saying they'd be liabilities in their positions (jadeja/Kapil at 7/8) in this kind of scenario is baseless.

I could make a reasonable argument the Indian ATG batting lineup is stronger than any national XI lineup bar Aus/WI.

I'm not trying to be negative about the players, that could have been phrased better. I'm just saying that India would probably be the only squad going in a batsman short and like the others may be better served by another specialists. But can also understand the need to play 5 bowlers,

 

[Xix2565]

I mean I don't get this point about being a batter short when bowling is more valuable and important in Tests. Surely the point of an XI is to pick a team that is good, and good teams should be equipped to take 20 wickets first over batting well. That past great sides didn't field a 5th bowling option all the time (which has meant that in ATG XI discourse a 5th bowling option isn't highly valued) is down to circumstances within the team and across other teams rather than there being a standard template for winning to follow. People would be well within their rights to perhaps not pick a No.6 for an Aussie ATG XI and use someone like Keith Miller instead. It's not bad cricket logic to do so.

 

[Xix2565]

For the record, my ATG XI for India (across all conditions):

Sunil Gavaskar
Virender Sehwag
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Virat Kohli (c)
Rishabh Pant (wk)
Ravindra Jadeja
Kapil Dev
Ravichandran Ashwin
Mohammed Shami
Jasprit Bumrah

Reserves: Vinoo Mankad, Anil Kumble, Bishen Singh Bedi, Ishant Sharma, Zaheer Khan, Cheteshwar Pujara, Rohit Sharma, Mahendra Singh Dhoni

 

[kyear2]

I mean I don't get this point about being a batter short when bowling is more valuable and important in Tests. Surely the point of an XI is to pick a team that is good, and good teams should be equipped to take 20 wickets first over batting well. That past great sides didn't field a 5th bowling option all the time (which has meant that in ATG XI discourse a 5th bowling option isn't highly valued) is down to circumstances within the team and across other teams rather than there being a standard template for winning to follow. People would be well within their rights to perhaps not pick a No.6 for an Aussie ATG XI and use someone like Keith Miller instead. It's not bad cricket logic to do so.

If my memory serves correct, even Australia in their heyday was reluctant to bat Gilly at 6 consistently, I recall them trying a few times and always going back to him at 7. And he's the best to have ever done it from the keeper position (well Flower).

Please note I'm not telling you you're worng or what to choose, I'm just saying it looks a batsman short.

Just feels like the tail is a bit long.

 

[Sunil1z]

Personally in swinging conditions, my batting line up would be
Gavaskar
Dravid
Tendulkar
Kohli
Sehwag
Pant
Jadeja
Kapil
Ashwin
Shami
Bumrah

I mean I get it you cannot change players in ATXI according to conditions but you can certainly batting order .

AFIAC the 2 best players of moving ball since 90s are Dravid and Steve Waugh . So Dravid would be fine as opener and Sehwag can play Gilchrist role down the order

 

[GirthQuake]

Are you suggesting that Sehwag was better than Hobbs and Hutton?

Given that Sehwag played more accomplished bowlers in a year than hobbs/hutton did in their entire career, played in more varied conditions, in a more scrutinized/professional era, I am 100 percent putting Sehwag above them.

No disrespect to hobbs/hutton etc and I am sure they'd likely have adapted to modern era but it's not a given. I am not going to hold Sehwag's actual performance in diverse conditions and against top bowlers against him WHILE extrapolating that Hobbs/hutton *might* have gone well today in India because something something uncovered pitches.

That is not how cricket works.

 

[GirthQuake]

I'm just saying that India would probably be the only squad going in a batsman short and like the others may be better served by another specialists.

India would be the only team going with a batsman who played 156 tests at a stretch while averaging ~60. These things do not work so linerarly as you seem to suggest.

 

[GirthQuake]

I could make a reasonable argument the Indian ATG batting lineup is stronger than any national XI lineup bar Aus/WI.

Pretty much and here too, AUS/WI would likely not stand much chance in subcontinental conditions.

 

[Sunil1z]

No need to be this aggressive while making your points . Sehwag’s criticism against moving ball is genuine. So move him down the order . Writing negative things against other players doesn’t help your point .

 

[Majestic]

Classic example of nerd cricket. Like a left armer makes attack more balanced and presents more threat. No it doesn't. A better/superior spinner pairs well with other spinner.

Kumble is no better than Ashwin, both same level maybe?

Sehwag shouldn't bowl in all time XI sides.

 

[Coronis]

Personally in swinging conditions, my batting line up would be
Gavaskar
Dravid
Tendulkar
Kohli
Sehwag
Pant
Jadeja
Kapil
Ashwin
Shami
Bumrah

I mean I get it you cannot change players in ATXI according to conditions but you can certainly batting order .

AFIAC the 2 best players of moving ball since 90s are Dravid and Steve Waugh . So Dravid would be fine as opener and Sehwag can play Gilchrist role down the order

I mean tbh we probably should, real teams change players all the time, between or within series, depending on conditions.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I mean tbh we probably should, real teams change players all the time, between or within series, depending on conditions.

I think it's funny to think a team which will do good in India will also do equally good in Australia and England; that's really not we select a team.... Like for instance, if it's said that single match is to be played in every country; then I don't think having Vijay Merchant in my team replacing Sehwag....

 

[Xix2565]

If my memory serves correct, even Australia in their heyday was reluctant to bat Gilly at 6 consistently, I recall them trying a few times and always going back to him at 7. And he's the best to have ever done it from the keeper position (well Flower).

Please note I'm not telling you you're worng or what to choose, I'm just saying it looks a batsman short.

Just feels like the tail is a bit long.

I mean that's still a reflection of circumstances. If there's no talent ready to fill the space and if it's not as necessary because the opposition isn't good enough bowling wise then you'll get such teams. Doesn't make it bad to pick only 4 bowlers, but the number 7 batter isn't going to be worth more than the 5th bowler at this level. The tradeoff in wickets is worthwhile.

I mean when batters play vs deep bowling attacks I don't expect them to do well. And having more batting only helps if the 4 bowlers are all pretty good at taking 20 wickets, which is more important in RL and hypotheticals.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

I can understand most of the guys picking Pant but Farokh Engineer deserves more shout. Hes arguably a better keeper than Pant and his batting was no mug.

An attacking batsman blessed with a flamboyant personality, Engineer was extremely agile behind the stumps. The fact that he successfully kept wickets to the bowling of India’s famous spin quartet is testament to his wicketkeeping abilities.

The career defining knock:Engineer’s 109 as opener in the third Test against the West Indies at Madras (now Chennai) in 1966-67 turned out to be a career-defining innings for him

Played key role in first Indian win on English soil: Engineer was instrumental in India's first win on English soil. In the third Test of the 1971 series played at The Oval, Engineer scored 59 in the first innings, which was also highest individual score for India in the match. In the second innings, he scored 28 not out, and it was his crucial partnership with Gundappa Viswanath that took India to its first Test win in England.

 

[Xix2565]

I can understand most of the guys picking Pant but Farokh Engineer deserves more shout. Hes arguably a better keeper than Pant and his batting was no mug.

Missed the reserves for mine, thought 2 WKs were enough and wanted other players more.

 

[GirthQuake]

If Pant 2.0 goes at 80 percent of his earlier incarnation, there will no room for anyone else claiming WKeepers slot.

 

[GirthQuake]

FWIW, this would be my India XI

Sehwag
Gavaskar
Dravid
Sachin
Kohli
Pant
Kapil
Jadeja
Ashwin/Srinath
Bumrah
Shami/Srinath

More importantly, in 5 years time it's possible Kuldeep and Jaiswal force their way in this XI.

 

[Sunil1z]

One thing which I have noticed on this forum is that Asian posters picking 3 fast bowlers and 1 spinner in their side so that their side could win outside Asia. I don’t see SENA posters picking 2 spinners in their ATG side to win in Asia .

 

[honestbharani]

One thing which I have noticed on this forum is that Asian posters picking 3 fast bowlers and 1 spinner in their side so that their side could win outside Asia. I don’t see SENA posters picking 2 spinners in their ATG side to win in Asia .

Its the whole paceocracy that is buried deep into everyone's mind, subconsciously or consciously. Its also why I always rate teams based on the strength of their second spinner as one of the primary factors, in the draft threads.