Jacques Kallis vs Imran Khan

[smash84]

That was no were near what Kallis did at the 98 Knockout Trophy.
Imran was the Player of the Tournament and Player of the Match in the Final…
and was never near leading scorer and by no chance leading wicket taker.
He was the fifth leading run scorer and not in the top 10 when it came to bowling…

But Kallis
Player of the Tournament, Player of the Finals and the Semi Finals
Leading wicket taker and the second leading run scorer…
His performance is way beyond than that of Imran in 89 Nehru which is clearer than daylight!!

That performance by Kallis definitely is the best performance ever by a cricketer in such tournaments ( not including World Cups)

His 113* in the Semi Finals was extremely impressive as the second highest was Cullinan with 30

What? Imran's performance was better in the CLUTCH match, which is the final. And his performance in the 3 matches which took pakistan to the final are match winning. So how is his performance not better? Player of the semi-final Kallis? Sure. That is like the match 2 of the match 3 series. And Imran's opposition in the final is significantly better than Kallis's as well.

If it hadn't been for Cronje SA wouldn't even have won the final of that 3 match tournament. Imran's performance in the bigger tournament is more impressive. He won matches either with bat (against SL), or ball (Aus), or both (final).

And Imran's World Cup performances are also better. Imran was a better clutch player in world cups too.

You exclude world cups because World Cups are by far the most important ODI tournaments and Imran is better?

 

[smash84]

Even in Quater Finals though not man of the match Kallis picked 3 wickets and that is what you call match winner throughout the tournament >> Imran at the 89 Nehru Cup… which is bright and clear.

What quarter finals? You mean the 3 match series?

 

[Cricket Bliss]

I agree with the Eng point but I believe Imran doing well at home, Ind, Aus and Eng for a good majority of his career(63 out of 88 tests) is better. His only weak point was WI and SL

Spot on but with slight correction. Imran’s peak began in 82. In 80 and 81 Imran averaged 30 and 27 respectively. It was from 82 his average leaped forward… Considering he played 11 Tests at that time I would like to say his peak in Tests with the bat was in 51 Tests out of 88

 

[smash84]

( not including World Cups)

Says it all

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

But anyways, Imran is better enough in his primary discipline than Kallis, to be the better player

 

[Cricket Bliss]

What? Imran's performance was better in the CLUTCH match, which is the final. And his performance in the 3 matches which took pakistan to the final are match winning. So how is his performance not better? Player of the semi-final Kallis? Sure. That is like the match 2 of the match 3 series. And Imran's opposition in the final is significantly better than Kallis's as well.

If it hadn't been for Cronje SA wouldn't even have won the final of that 3 match tournament. Imran's performance in the bigger tournament is more impressive. He won matches either with bat (against SL), or ball (Aus), or both (final).

And Imran's World Cup performances are also better. Imran was a better clutch player in world cups too.

You exclude world cups because World Cups are by far the most important ODI tournaments and Imran is better?

For non biased persons Kallis 98 Knockout Trophy any day >> Imran 89 Nehru Trophy

Since you said the format was not like World Cups , i excluded it saying that it was the best performance ever in tournaments like Nehru Cup, Coco Cola cup etc…

Well if both are match winning performances then how does Imrans become better than Kallis except for bias
Moreover facing Sri Lankan bowlers like Muralithran is sub continent conditions is great… moreover are you actually referring to 1989 Nehru Cup? Imran actually scored 15 runs and took no wickets in that semi final against England which is a disgrace to argue with Kallis scoring 113 when the second best score was 30. I cant understand you..

Moreover it is not Kallis fault that West Indies qualified for the Final, you could only play against the opponent you are given. You can’t play against Australia or West Indies of the 70s if you are willing to just to prove your opponent is stronger.. another disgraceful point from you..

Just look at the Summarry
Player of The Tournament
Kallis = Imran

Player of the Finals
Kallis = Imran (although picking 5 wickets has more significance than 3 wickets especially in ODI)

Player of the Semi Finals
Kallis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Imran’s 15 runs and 0 wicket

Leading wicket taker
Kallis >>>> Imran (outside the top 10)

Second Leading Run Scorer
Kallis > Imran (number 5)

its Bright and clear that Kallis performance any day is better than that of Imran… Don’t overrate Imran to such heights

You even say Imran was better than Bradman.. I might somehow agree…. but this point that was the most overrated point one gave for Imran

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Says it all

Ok Kallis at 98 Knockout Trophy has the best performance including all major tournaments including World Cups… satisfied

I specifically excluded World Cups because you said World Cup or any other CT cannot be compared with the 98 Knockout Trophy due its format… So I said Kallis performance is the best ever in tournaments restricted to Nehru Cup, Coco cola cup etc like tournaments

 

[smash84]

Ok Kallis at 98 Knockout Trophy has the best performance including all major tournaments including World Cups… satisfied

I specifically excluded World Cups because you said World Cup or any other CT cannot be compared with the 98 Knockout Trophy due its format… So I said Kallis performance is the best ever in tournaments restricted to Nehru Cup, Coco cola cup etc like tournaments

Of course, let's exclude the most important tournament (world cups) and then mention the one that fits my description.

Kallis's performance in any sustained ODI tournament is really bad and Imran >>> greater in them.

Kallis is very good in a 3 match knockout tournament. OK....satisfied?

 

[Cricket Bliss]

If it hadn't been for Cronje SA wouldn't even have won the final of that 3 match tournament. Imran's performance in the bigger tournament is more impressive. He won matches either with bat (against SL), or ball (Aus), or both (final).

If it hadn’t been Imran’s 15 and 0 wickets Pakistan would’ve never won the Semi Final

and if Saleem Malik didn’t score 71 Pakistan would’ve never won the Finals too
and you’re saying Cronje’s 61* > Kallis 5/30 in the finals that’s bias at its peak

Kallis too won matches both with the ball and bat against England (ball) , Sri Lanka (Bat) and West Indies (Ball)

 

[smash84]

its Bright and clear that Kallis performance any day is better than that of Imran… Don’t overrate Imran to such heights

Nobody is overrating Imran in ODIs. It was actually to your point that Kallis performed amazingly in a 3 match knockout tournament to big up kallis, which was a silly point.

 

[smash84]

If it hadn’t been Imran’s 15 and 0 wickets Pakistan would’ve never won the Semi Final

and if Saleem Malik didn’t score 71 Pakistan would’ve never won the Finals too
and you’re saying Cronje’s 61* > Kallis 5/30 in the finals that’s bias at its peak

Kallis too won matches both with the ball and bat against England (ball) , Sri Lanka (Bat) and West Indies (Ball)

[/QUOTE]

I was actually addressing your earlier claims that Kallis singlehandedly won the final.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Nobody is overrating Imran in ODIs. It was actually to your point that Kallis performed amazingly in a 3 match knockout tournament to big up kallis, which was a silly point.

Winning 3 knock-out games and being the crucial point there becomes silly for Imran fans in this case… If atleast 50% of it was done by Imran you would make it GOAT achievement

 

[smash84]

None seem to mention that Kallis single handedly won the 1998 Knockout Trophy for South Africa.

This point of yours was being addressed.

 

[smash84]

Winning 3 knock-out games and being the crucial point there becomes silly for Imran fans in this case… If atleast 50% of it was done by Imran you would make it GOAT achievement

That's the whole point though. Bringing up 3 knockout games which are not even a World Cup really have little value.

Now if kallis had done that in World Cups......

 

[Cricket Bliss]

I was actually addressing your earlier claims that Kallis singlehandedly won the final.
[/QUOTE]
Yes . He did.
After his masterful 134* in the finals of the 1998 Coca Cola Cup Australia said they lost to Tendulkar, not to India
hadn’t Venkatesh Prasad bowled economically Australia would’ve scored more and Tendulkar making India win the game would’ve been sceptical.

Brain Lara’s 153* against Australia at 99 Barbadoes was rated as the second best innings ever by Wisden. Lara single handedly won the game with the bat …. had’nt Walsh bowled excellently West Indies wouldn’t have won that..

Single Handedly doesn’t mean you have to score all the runs and take all the wickets… that is impossible
It means your effort alone contributed to much like 70% for the team in the victory in which the rest contributed only the remaining 30% or so

 

[Cricket Bliss]

That's the whole point though. Bringing up 3 knockout games which are not even a World Cup really have little value.

Now if kallis had done that in World Cups......

It may have little value because it wasn’t Imran…

Just imagine a World Cup where someone becomes the player of match in both the semi final and the final and a significant reason for its victory in the Quater Final… he is the next superstar
though not as significant as World Cup , that performance also is applaudable upto a large extent

 

[Cricket Bliss]

It may have little value because it wasn’t Imran…

Just imagine a World Cup where someone becomes the player of match in both the semi final and the final and a significant reason for its victory in the Quater Final… he is the next superstar
though not as significant as World Cup , that performance also is applaudable upto a large extent
Champions Trophy ain't disgrace mate.

and not even a world cup, are only World cups important to you.. not any other bilaterals or tournaments… this is pathetic mate

 

[smash84]

It may have little value because it wasn’t Imran…

Just imagine a World Cup where someone becomes the player of match in both the semi final and the final and a significant reason for its victory in the Quater Final… he is the next superstar
though not as significant as World Cup , that performance also is applaudable upto a large extent

of course it is applaudable, but it isn't really something that would figure in bringing up his ranking against a player who has done well in world cups.

 

[smash84]

[/QUOTE]

Single Handedly doesn’t mean you have to score all the runs and take all the wickets… that is impossible
It means your effort alone contributed to much like 70% for the team in the victory in which the rest contributed only the remaining 30% or so
[/QUOTE]

He didn't do that though. He needed to bat for a long time and he didn't. So how did he singlehandedly win the final. Explain again.

Compare that to Imran who stayed till the end in the Nehru cup final against a tougher WI and saw his team through.

 

[kyear2]

But anyways, Imran is better enough in his primary discipline than Kallis, to be the better player

And this is without question.

If we're just looking batting and bowling, then Imran edges it. But everyone knows how much I value slip catching and when that's factored in, it's that much closer for me to the point it's equal.

Kallis brings so much value and versatility to a team that's only really matched by Sobers and Hammond.