JAMTests - they are upon us

[Immenso]

I also think context should be put on "arbitrarily resting players from tests in marquee series".

If you shrink a 5-test series into 6 weeks, then you will need to rest some players.

But the alternative. From the past that we are breaking from according to this theory. Involved 5 tests spread over 3 or 4 months. Tours so long that often players opted out of overseas tours in their enitirity, because of work reasons, family reasons, or 'exhaustion'.

Again, form my NZ experience. I know of John F Reid opting out of tours and season because of work. Bruce Edgar retiring at 29. Glenn Turner missing 6 years of his prime. Our at-the-time premier spinner (Hedly Howarth) opting out of a tour of the sub-continent. Richard Hadlee opting ot of subcontinent tours because he had such a terrible health experience on his first tour (rarity means that he actually only ended up missing one tour, plus one world cup).

Fans from other teams will probably have similar anecdotes. I know of Greg Chappell missing tours etc.

 

[Immenso]

I hear you...although I don't think it's fair to bag Australia too hard. The likes of Starc, Cummins and probably others I'm not thinking of right now, have shunned big money in the IPL to be fully available for their country. I would love Australia to tour more - I think we should be playing there or here every summer in limited overs stuff - but it isn't like we've made ourselves box office opponents in Tests since 2015.

Nah. It's nothing to do with bagging players and their commitments. But bagging the ACB who have been the worst of the Big3 IMO is 100% fair.

I'm not talking every year stuff. But tour your neighbour at least every 4 years.

I mean, NZC under White were also evil and probably begged the ACB not to tour, for some sort of spreadsheet reasons or sumfink ....

 

[AndrewB]

I mean NZ and West Indies played their first ever test matches at the same time against entirely different England touring test sides in different sides of the world. Andy Sandham set the world record for the highest test score at the time in one of these tests.

On a pedantic note, West Indies had played Tests in England before that; it was their first home Tests.
More relevantly, you wouldn't even have got close to a full strength England team of 1930 if you combined the two squads; they were missing Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hammond, Larwood and Tate, for instance.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

We deliberately picked an understrength team to beat England in the 2021 series over there (resting/testing bench strength and options before the WTC final) and that was still a special win.

 

[Coronis]

I hear you...although I don't think it's fair to bag Australia too hard. The likes of Starc, Cummins and probably others I'm not thinking of right now, have shunned big money in the IPL to be fully available for their country. I would love Australia to tour more - I think we should be playing there or here every summer in limited overs stuff - but it isn't like we've made ourselves box office opponents in Tests since 2015.

I mean looking at your overall record since then you’re a top 3 team. (much closer to 2nd than 4th)

 

[Flem274*]

We deliberately picked an understrength team to beat England in the 2021 series over there (resting/testing bench strength and options before the WTC final) and that was still a special win.

Was about to mention this lol that was our first modern jam test

Had them inflicted on us early in our history iirc.

 

[CricAddict]

When teams deliberately send under-strength teams like SA sent to NZ recently, you have to regard those tests as JAMTests. WI has been doing it for several years. India is arbitrarily resting players from tests in marquee series.

When this happens you can't realistically put a series in historical context. No one looks at WI vs. Aus series these days and thinks it is a continuation of tradition set by Border, McGrath, Ambrose, Lara several decades ago. It's mere formality to complete such tests and series.

RIP test cricket of old.

Hooper and Ambrose cared about the series a lot though. Shed happy tears on the windies win.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Hooper and Ambrose cared about the series a lot though. Shed happy tears on the windies win.

You’re missing a whole bunch of other ex-Windies players, most notably Brian Lara in the commentary box when Ian Smith made the call.

 

[Line and Length]

These Tests are essential to the promotion and continuity of Test cricket. Sure, we have seen some examples of below strength representative teams but this is better than no Tests at all. For instance, the WI's win in Australia will do, IMO, wonders for the longer game in the Caribbean.
There are some who question the validity of statistics gained against sub-par opposition but this is no different to the validity of performances against so-called minnows in the past. Since that time, many 'minnows' of the past have emerged as strong Test nations.
Test cricket is the pinnacle of international cricket and long may it be so.

 

[SteveNZ]

I mean looking at your overall record since then you’re a top 3 team. (much closer to 2nd than 4th)

Yeah, but unfortunately we've fluffed our lines in the series' against Australia since we won at Hobart. Drawn one since then (Ross Taylor's 290 at Perth) and been not just beaten but absolutely belted in 6 of the other 7 Tests - the only exception being the game where we played against 12, Australia's XI plus Nigel Llong.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

These Tests are essential to the promotion and continuity of Test cricket. Sure, we have seen some examples of below strength representative teams but this is better than no Tests at all. For instance, the WI's win in Australia will do, IMO, wonders for the longer game in the Caribbean.
There are some who question the validity of statistics gained against sub-par opposition but this is no different to the validity of performances against so-called minnows in the past. Since that time, many 'minnows' of the past have emerged as strong Test nations.
Test cricket is the pinnacle of international cricket and long may it be so.

Solid post this. Ditto

 

[nightprowler10]

but to add to the spirit of the thread

Pakistan rested Shaheen in an away sena tour so that he could be fit to captain the team in a JAMT20 next lol

Ok but Shaheen has had a workload problem since his injury. I really don't think he's 100% fit.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Don't agree. Firstly, the SA series was an aberration. The SA board ****ed up their dates, wanted to change them, but NZ couldn't accommodate it because of the Australian tour. It was an administrative error, not a middle finger to test cricket. It wasn't deliberate.

Secondly, sides like the Windies have been sending understrength sides for decades. This is nothing new. The teams above them in the rankings generally don't.

Thirdly, Test cricket always has context. It didn't need the WTC. That occured to me last night after I thought about getting wound up by our T20 loss to Australia...it'll soon be forgotten. I can't remember T20I series'. Yet I could vividly remember every Test series against Australia going back to 1985, just after I was born. I'm still wound up by Nigel ****ing Llong in 2015 and Ian Robinson in 2001. I can vividly remember where I was when we won in Hobart, and actually for a lot of Test cricket my side has played.

So to me, no such thing as a JAM Test series. Even last week v SA, there's things I'll remember - O'Rourke on debut, Kane's tons, Bedingham being brilliant, SAs disciplined attack.

So nah it isn't meaningless. Stats matter. Memories last. Conversations and debates rage.

Ankitj is right. Just because they can be memorable to some people doesn't make them not JAMTests. I'm sure there are JAMODIs that many people remember well, and fondly.

 

[Gnske]

This thread is from the future. Come back here in 5 years to see how it's all true.

How much was burgey's permaban celebrated in 2028?

 

[Daemon]

The SA series doesn’t count (mainly because KW made runs) but I can’t think of any other test series that shouldn’t. Maybe the WI vs Ban one way back during the Sammy days.

 

[Chubb]

Most tests are JAM tests already. Any dead rubber and most games against Windies, Bangladesh, Zim, Ireland or Afghanistan. It takes something special from those teams to turn a game into a significant challenge for their opponents. Not saying it doesn't happen, it just doesn't happen that often really does it.

I am depressive and cynical but I think most professional cricketers treat most games as JAM unless it's a global tournament or a significant historical opponent.

 

[SteveNZ]

Ankitj is right. Just because they can be memorable to some people doesn't make them not JAMTests. I'm sure there are JAMODIs that many people remember well, and fondly.

He's not right, I'm not right - it's an opinion. What constitutes meaning, anyway?

Last week's series against SA, even though it was a severely weakened side, wasn't meaningless to me. Not to other NZ posters. Not to NZ fans who don't get to watch much of it, or as much as we'd like.

To me, ODIs are meaningless because you could care less about the result and they're unmemorable. Only time I've ever felt that is against a weak Zimbabwe side

 

[SteveNZ]

Most tests are JAM tests already. Any dead rubber and most games against Windies, Bangladesh, Zim, Ireland or Afghanistan. It takes something special from those teams to turn a game into a significant challenge for their opponents. Not saying it doesn't happen, it just doesn't happen that often really does it.

I am depressive and cynical but I think most professional cricketers treat most games as JAM unless it's a global tournament or a significant historical opponent.

But the difference is you could lose an ODI or T20 to those sides and give no ****s. We lost to Bangladesh in a Test at home 2 years ago and it was significant. Last week was nerve wracking. West Indies won in Australia and grown test legends cried, and Australian greats shared their joy. No one gave a single **** when Andre Russel won a T20 off his own back on the same tour.

That's the meaning, for me. Ok, some wins are ho hum and stats get padded, but theres always meaning waiting to applied. ODIs and T20 seldom mean **** all

 

[Line and Length]

But the difference is you could lose an ODI or T20 to those sides and give no ****s. We lost to Bangladesh in a Test at home 2 years ago and it was significant. Last week was nerve wracking. West Indies won in Australia and grown test legends cried, and Australian greats shared their joy. No one gave a single **** when Andre Russel won a T20 off his own back on the same tour.

That's the meaning, for me. Ok, some wins are ho hum and stats get padded, but theres always meaning waiting to applied. ODIs and T20 seldom mean **** all

The difference between Tests and white ball cricket summed up in one word.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He's not right, I'm not right - it's an opinion. What constitutes meaning, anyway?

established cricketweb definition of JAMODIs, extrapolated to Tests