The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[kyear2]

With the exception of Barry not much I can fault him on. Bats deep and bowls deep. I know we all would go for Gilchrist but obviously if we could combine Sanga’s peak batsmanship with his keeping he’d be well ahead - won’t surprise me if in some of those vids the cricketers choose him based on that especially with him continuing to keep in ODIs. Might look through some other players after work tonight but eek I saw some titles including Cook so it might only be players they’ve seen/played against.

Don't forget catches well

And don't bother, most of the other teams are utter shite. Think only that one even had Bradman.

 

[Red]

Picking a quick team based on Sheffield Shield performance only (discounting tests)

B.Ponsford (5413 @ 83)
B.Simpson (6471 @ 57)
D.Bradman (8926 @ 110)
R.Ponting (6377 @ 63)
L.Hassett (5535 @ 63)
A.Kippax (6096 @ 70)
A.Gilchrist (268 dismissals @ 2.6 per match)
A.Davidson (246 @ 21)
R. Lindwall (243 @ 22)
G. Noblet (190 @ 17)
B.OReilly (203 @ 17)

Interestingly Gilly has the most dismissals per innings of all Shield keepers in the top 100 except Mike Veletta who only kept in 3 Shield innings but somehow has 28 dismissals in those 3 innings

 

[TheJediBrah]

Mike Veletta who only kept in 3 Shield innings but somehow has 28 dismissals in those 3 innings

That's obviously not accurate lol you've read the stats wrong somehow

 

[Coronis]

In the Sheffield Shield Oldfield had 70 stumpings in 51 matches. Compared to his paltry test record of 52 stumpings in 54 matches.

Always gotta be careful and make sure to look at specific fielding stats regarding keepers/fielders re: innings as catches are usually listed alongside batting stats - listed alongside batting innings rather than fielding innings.

 

[Coronis]

Picking a quick team based on Sheffield Shield performance only (discounting tests)

B.Ponsford (5413 @ 83)
B.Simpson (6471 @ 57)
D.Bradman (8926 @ 110)
R.Ponting (6377 @ 63)
L.Hassett (5535 @ 63)
A.Kippax (6096 @ 70)
A.Gilchrist (268 dismissals @ 2.6 per match)
A.Davidson (246 @ 21)
R. Lindwall (243 @ 22)
G. Noblet (190 @ 17)
B.OReilly (203 @ 17)

Interestingly Gilly has the most dismissals per innings of all Shield keepers in the top 100 except Mike Veletta who only kept in 3 Shield innings but somehow has 28 dismissals in those 3 innings

I’m assuming this anomaly from cricinfo has just added his catches in the rest of his career to his keeping.

Especially as shown here his best innings performance was 5 catches, and lists him with 114 matches, rather than just matches he kept in.

 

[bagapath]

World Record Holders XI from the last 50 years

Sunil Gavaskar (most runs)
Sir Geoff Boycott (most runs)
Brian Lara (most runs)
Sachin Tendulkar (most runs)
Allan Border * (most runs)
Sir Ian Botham (most wickets)
Adam Gilchrist + (most dismissals as wk)
Sir Richard Hadlee (most wickets)
Shane Warne (most wickets)
Dennis Lillee (most wickets)
Muralitharan (most wickets)

12th man: Kapil Dev (most wickets)

World Record Holders XI from the previous 100 years

Archie McLaren (most runs)
Sir Jack Hobbs (most runs)
Clem Hill (most runs)
Walter Hammond (most runs)
Colin Cowdrey (most runs)
Sir Gary Sobers (most runs)
William Oldfield + (most dismissals as wk)
Sir Alec Bedser (most wickets)
Fred Trueman (most wickets)
Clarrie Grimmett (most wickets)
Syd Barnes (most wickets)

12th man: Fred Spofforth (most wickets)

 

[capt_Luffy]

World Record Holders XI from the last 50 years

Sunil Gavaskar (most runs)
Sir Geoff Boycott (most runs)
Brian Lara (most runs)
Sachin Tendulkar (most runs)
Allan Border * (most runs)
Sir Ian Botham (most wickets)
Adam Gilchrist + (most dismissals as wk)
Sir Richard Hadlee (most wickets)
Shane Warne (most wickets)
Dennis Lillee (most wickets)
Muralitharan (most wickets)

12th man: Kapil Dev (most wickets)

World Record Holders XI from the previous 100 years

Archie McLaren (most runs)
Sir Jack Hobbs (most runs)
Clem Hill (most runs)
Walter Hammond (most runs)
Colin Cowdrey (most runs)
Sir Gary Sobers (most runs)
William Oldfield + (most dismissals as wk)
Sir Alec Bedser (most wickets)
Fred Trueman (most wickets)
Clarrie Grimmett (most wickets)
Syd Barnes (most wickets)

12th man: Fred Spofforth (most wickets)

Did you omitted Sir Don to give this team a more balanced playing field??

 

[h_hurricane]

Did you omitted Sir Don to give this team a more balanced playing field??

Guess Hammond was always ahead of him in the run aggregate, so Don never reached that pole position in the first place.

 

[Coronis]

Guess Hammond was always ahead of him in the run aggregate, so Don never reached that pole position in the first place.

In fact, by the time Don passed Hobbs’ total of 5410 (in December of 46) Hammond had surpassed 7000 runs just a few months earlier.


Fun fact I learnt checking this: Unlike the record for most wickets, nobody has regained the record for most runs after losing it to someone else.

This has happened a few times with most wickets, most recently with Murali overtaking Walsh, then being passed by Warne, before passing Warne and holding the record to this day. The other cases all involve Johnny Briggs. He took the record from Spofforth, holding it just over a month before Turner overtook him. Briggs got it back just under a month later, and held it for a year until Lohmann overtook him. After almost two years Briggs was back at it again, equalling Lohmann’s record and then taking it back in the next test. Held it up until he retired and finally surrendered a few years later to Trumble.

 

[bagapath]

World Record Holders XI from the last 50 years

Sunil Gavaskar (most runs)
Sir Geoff Boycott (most runs)
Brian Lara (most runs)
Sachin Tendulkar (most runs)
Allan Border * (most runs)
Sir Ian Botham (most wickets)
Adam Gilchrist + (most dismissals as wk)
Sir Richard Hadlee (most wickets)
Shane Warne (most wickets)
Dennis Lillee (most wickets)
Muralitharan (most wickets)

12th man: Kapil Dev (most wickets)

World Record Holders XI from the previous 100 years

Archie McLaren (most runs)
Sir Jack Hobbs (most runs)
Clem Hill (most runs)
Walter Hammond (most runs)
Colin Cowdrey (most runs)
Sir Gary Sobers (most runs)
William Oldfield + (most dismissals as wk)
Sir Alec Bedser (most wickets)
Fred Trueman (most wickets)
Clarrie Grimmett (most wickets)
Syd Barnes (most wickets)

12th man: Fred Spofforth (most wickets)

A combined xi of World Record holders would look like

Sir Jack Hobbs (most runs)
Sunil Gavaskar (most runs)
Brian Lara (most runs)
Sachin Tendulkar (most runs)
Walter Hammond (most runs)
Sir Gary Sobers (most runs)
Adam Gilchrist + (most dismissals as wk)
Sir Richard Hadlee (most wickets)
Shane Warne (most wickets)
Dennis Lillee (most wickets)
Muralitharan (most wickets)

That would be as good an ATG XI as any

 

[Victor Ian]

Add most runs in a day and you can squeeze in bradman

 

[morgieb]

Probably should be some XI regarding players who came back from terrible injuries or had certain disabilities and still were very successful. Can’t be bothered to do more research right now but this bloke deserves a big mention - came across him randomly.

Buster Nupen from South Africa. Was basically a matting specialist, so much so that on SA’s first series including turf pitches he was shuffled in and out between the matting and turf games.

Hit two hammers together at the age of 7 and a metal splinter blinded him in his left eye, causing him to wear a glass eye the rest of his life. Made his debut at 19 after the first World War in November 1921.

March 1922, he was caught up in the Rand Rebellion and was shot twice, a bullet through both knees. Apparently a doctor initially wanted to perform a double amputation. The British press had even reported him as dead. He was playing test cricket again in December.

In 1924 he had a back injury in the nets (described as a wrench), the issue becoming progressively worse until finding out in 1933 he had a broken vertebra. He had surgery and played one final test in 1936.

Len Hutton had one arm be shorter than his other one following a war injury. That he was still so damn good says an awful lot.

 

[Victor Ian]

Len Hutton had one arm be shorter than his other one following a war injury. That he was still so damn good says an awful lot.

Why does this keep coming up? For all we know, a shorter arm could be a cheat code for extra leverage and future cricketers will be lining up at the doctors for an arm shortening.

 

[howitzer]

Why does this keep coming up? For all we know, a shorter arm could be a cheat code for extra leverage and future cricketers will be lining up at the doctors for an arm shortening.

With how good Hutton was before the war, I think people extrapolate from that that it must have hindered him at least somewhat.

 

[Flem274*]

If Smith takes like a duck to water opening, there is a case for him taking the mantle in the Aus all time side.

Simpson
Smith
Bradman
Ponting
Border
Waugh
Gilchrist
Lindwall
Davidson
Warne
McGrath

 

[Nintendo]

If Smith takes like a duck to water opening, there is a case for him taking the mantle in the Aus all time side.

Simpson
Smith
Bradman
Ponting
Border
Waugh
Gilchrist
Lindwall
Davidson
Warne
McGrath

I don't see him purring together a good enough body of work in that position to get in, honestly. Usman as an opener has a really good average and has top scored in india, Pakistan, and England opening in the past two years, and he doesn't get in thr conversation. Probably a moot point because Simpson spent a good chunk of his career down the order, idk.

 

[Coronis]

I don't see him purring together a good enough body of work in that position to get in, honestly. Usman as an opener has a really good average and has top scored in india, Pakistan, and England opening in the past two years, and he doesn't get in thr conversation. Probably a moot point because Simpson spent a good chunk of his career down the order, idk.

fwiw opening vs non opening

Simpson
38 matches 70 innings 3664 runs @ 55.51 8 tons 19 50’s

24 matches 41 innings 1205 runs @ 31.71 2 tons 8 50’s

Khawaja
31 matches 55 innings 2722 runs @ 56.70 7 tons 14 fifties

44 matches 72 innings 2641 runs @ 39.41 8 tons 12 fifties

Simpson’s true peak as an opener was 64-67

26 matches 47 innings 2765 @ 61.44 8 tons 11 fifties (he also played 3 other matches not opening, scored 2 fifties)

Since Khawaja returned in 2022 he’s played all but one test (his first test back, twin centuries at Sydney) opening

26 matches 48 innings 2238 runs @ 52.04 5 tons 12 fifties

So Khawaja’s earlier experiments at opening were more successful but Simpson has had the better short opening peak so far.

 

[kyear2]

A combined xi of World Record holders would look like

Sir Jack Hobbs (most runs)
Sunil Gavaskar (most runs)
Brian Lara (most runs)
Sachin Tendulkar (most runs)
Walter Hammond (most runs)
Sir Gary Sobers (most runs)
Adam Gilchrist + (most dismissals as wk)
Sir Richard Hadlee (most wickets)
Shane Warne (most wickets)
Dennis Lillee (most wickets)
Muralitharan (most wickets)

That would be as good an ATG XI as any

Vs

Len Hutton
Graeme Smith
Donald Bradman
Viv Richards
Steve Smith
Jacques Kallis
Kumar Sangakkara
Malcolm Marshall
Hedley Verity
Dale Steyn
Glenn McGrath

 

[kyear2]

Why does this keep coming up? For all we know, a shorter arm could be a cheat code for extra leverage and future cricketers will be lining up at the doctors for an arm shortening.

How??? Lol

 

[kyear2]

I don't see him purring together a good enough body of work in that position to get in, honestly. Usman as an opener has a really good average and has top scored in india, Pakistan, and England opening in the past two years, and he doesn't get in thr conversation. Probably a moot point because Simpson spent a good chunk of his career down the order, idk.

All depends on how you look at these teams. Is it an honor thing or the team you would pick to actually play a match.

Honestly, if the aliens came down with their team and a time machine to play a match vs us, I'm shoehorning a Kallis / Smith / Headley (for a West Indies team) as an opener. Smith is a top 6 or 7 batsman who's probably not making it into the middle order and Kallis brings too much versatility and value to a team to leave out. He has the technique and temperament to open, could bowl short bursts of pace while Sobers bowls his wristies, and he and Sobers would be impenetrable in the cordon.

So why not Smith as opener?