Well in the matches Ashwin and Lyon played together in Australia; Ashwin took 7 more wickets at a lower average.... Had Ashwin played for Australia, I believe he would had averaged 27 ish and Lyon would had around the same had he played for India.
Too bad performances in matches lost don't count as matchwinning performances.
I can't agree with your criteria for what a watch winning performance is.... I can't help but feel the strong sense of bias there. In both those matches, Ashwin was the highest wicket taker with 7 and 6 wickets, especially the 6 on the winning one. I don't think taking 8 wickets with 6 in an already won innings is more important than 6 in a close match including important batters. If I go by stats like average alone, then you go by wickets taken in a particular winning innings only; as that's the only thing suiting your POV. And I am not going to continue to argue about Yasir Shah and all of a sudden hear that Mushtaq Ahmed and Danish Kaneria are better than Ashwin....
his hatred and bias
Not arguing those are better but even they managed basic match-winning performances in SENA.
Relax this is a very low stakes situation bro.
Means a lesser performance is better somehow just because he was the highest wicket taker (as Cummins also took 4)?
It isn't a lesser performance. He is in an away game in the Ashes, and ran through an England side to win the match. Wickets don't take themselves and there is always a chance for a draw or unlikely chase. It is precisely for these situations you have spinners, it is the classic spinner performance in SENA. If you are going to argue that sealing a victory when your side has an advantage isn't match-winning you are going to discredit a lot of winning bowling performances.
And that's the whole thing.... I don't want to discredit Lyon, taking a 6-fer away in England is commendable anytime; but that doesn't makes it better than taking 6 wickets in one match that was extremely close. To put it straightly, Australia most likely had won without that 6-fer, India wouldn't. My problem is with you totally dismissing the latter's efforts as not noteworthy.
Ashwin's was a good performance, but it wasn't singularly important in either innings as you had a couple of other bowlers also sharing the wickets.
Yes, he missed such performances; mostly because he hadn't really played that many matches overseas in SENA. But so did Lyon; his 6-fer again was good, but not like the ones you mentioned. And I don't think a single great match with 10 underwhelming ones is better than 2 bad matches and 8 solid ones to begin with....
Yeah this is our fundamental disagreement and our arguments stem from here.
Our arguments also stems from the fact that you somehow feels Lyon's 8 wickets in Birmingham was match winning, despite 6 coming in after Australia had basically won the game; yet simultaneously downplaying Ashwin's 6 in Adelaide, which came in much dire conditions. As a captain, I would definitely prefer my bowler to win me matches when conditions are right, doesn't means I am picking Bob Massie because he had done so once and Ashwin hadn't single handedly.....
Yeah except Lyon has done so multiple times in Australia, not some one off in England. So he is already more proven in SENA than Ashwin in this regard.
Yeah..... Lyon is literally Australia and has played close to 60 matches there. You would expect practically anyone to win few matches then. In the matches they played together in Australia, Ashwin has overplayed him and some.
Lyon outright won games for Australia vs India in Adelaide 2014 and Perth 2018. Moreso than what Ashwin accomplished IMO vs Aus in Aus with his support bowling.
It's just that Ashwin makes Lyon look good.
2021 Adelaide wasn't "support bowling", imo. And you know there's one more important thing in cricket than winning; i.e., not losing.