*Official* England in India 2023/24 #CryMoreTour

[Silver Silva]

Is Jaiswal usually so dominant against spin? I used to never like packing the lineup with mediocre spinners on a tour to India, because the Dravid-Tendulkar-Laxman generation was so good against them that it more than cancelled out the favourable pitches. That changed a bit when those guys retired, but maybe it's back.

Incredibly high ceiling..22 years old and playing like this ? He could be the most feared opener of his generation

 

[Uppercut]

Jaiswal is pretty dominant vs spin, even in his limited Test career he currently averages 165 vs spin (as per Kimber's graphs).

I mean it's never changed has it? Considering the Indian Test series record outside of the transition.

I haven't looked at the numbers and they might suggest that I'm wrong, but I would have said that the Kohli-Pujara-Rohit generation was a bit closer to equally good against spin and pace. The South Africa and Australia teams that won series or tests in the 2000s did it with pace attacks that overcame conditions (or sometimes they were lucky to get uncharacteristically pace-friendly conditions). But touring sides kept dropping decent fast bowlers for poor spinners and getting absolutely murdered.

In the past decade Australia have won tests with Steven O'Keefe and Matthew Kuhnemann doing the damage, and the one home series loss was mostly due to Swann and Panesar. So England's strategy here is more defensible than it used to be. But then I see Jaiswal taking apart a mediocre spinner opening the bowling and I'm not so sure.

 

[Aidan11]

Shame the host broadcaster didn't get David Gower.

Miles better than listening to KP.

 

[Nintendo]

I haven't looked at the numbers and they might suggest that I'm wrong, but I would have said that the Kohli-Pujara-Rohit generation was a bit closer to equally good against spin and pace. The South Africa and Australia teams that won series or tests in the 2000s did it with pace attacks that overcame conditions (or sometimes they were lucky to get uncharacteristically pace-friendly conditions). But touring sides kept dropping decent fast bowlers for poor spinners and getting absolutely murdered.

In the past decade Australia have won tests with Steven O'Keefe and Matthew Kuhnemann doing the damage, and the one home series loss was mostly due to Swann and Panesar. So England's strategy here is more defensible than it used to be. But then I see Jaiswal taking apart a mediocre spinner opening the bowling and I'm not so sure.

Kuhnemann and okeefe are better than Hartley. Also, this deck isn't as bad as the pitches the first two guys went crazy on.

 

[Aidan11]

It beggars belief why we threw Hartley in at the deep end.

Home test series, yes but the s/c. We do this with batsmen and it doesn't tend to work out well.

 

[Molehill]

It beggars belief why we threw Hartley in at the deep end.

Home test series, yes but the s/c. We do this with batsmen and it doesn't tend to work out well.

I do wonder if Bashir was ahead of Hartley in the queue given he offers something different to Leach.

 

[mackembhoy]

TNT did win the rights late in the day but obviously they knew they would be bidding with every chance of securing the rights.

So it's a bit surprising that they didn't have anyone like Cook or Finn on standby.

All the broadcasters really care about is English football and England cricket at home/world cup etc.

So not really surprising for me.

 

[Third_Man]

It beggars belief why we threw Hartley in at the deep end.

Home test series, yes but the s/c. We do this with batsmen and it doesn't tend to work out well.

Simple question for the England management:

Did Lancashire employ Nathan Lyon as their overseas in 2024 because
a) they expected Tom Hartley to be playing for England in all formats in 2024; or because
b) they did not think Tom's red ball form was good to enough for their first team to win matches in the county championship?

 

[Third_Man]

I do wonder if Bashir was ahead of Hartley in the queue given he offers something different to Leach.

Probably but doesn't Hartley offer something different to Leach and not just his batting.

 

[Chin Music]

My only guess with the spin bowling selections apart from Leach are that these fellas have been identified on potential, the attributes that they bring on analysing their bowling, such as revs, flight, drift, dip, accuracy, and their temperament when they are attacked.

I get the annoyance re Dawson not playing as you have a bloke in more obvious form, although he didn't exactly have stacks of pedigree at international level.

 

[Third_Man]

My only guess with the spin bowling selections apart from Leach are that these fellas have been identified on potential, the attributes that they bring on analysing their bowling, such as revs, flight, drift, dip, accuracy, and their temperament when they are attacked.

I get the annoyance re Dawson not playing as you have a bloke in more obvious form, although he didn't exactly have stacks of pedigree at international level.

Does Hartley turn the ball? At the risk of repeating myself, he will not be in the first choice Lancs side at the start of the season. Wells, Jennings, Bohannon, Salt, Bruce, Bell, Balderson, Bailey, Williams, Lyon plus Anderson or Mahmood. How does he get in that side until either injury or two spinners required (and even then Morley might be considered ahead of him).

 

[Molehill]

Probably but doesn't Hartley offer something different to Leach and not just his batting.

For me the issue is that those two, plus Rehan all basically turn the ball the same way. They could really do with a right arm off spinner to bowl to the lefties, as Jaiswal is kind of showing.

It should be pointed out that that wouldn't have been Dawson either.

 

[Hungry Llama]

Theres not much we can do about our batting, but if they had selected
say Anderson Yobbo Leach Dawson with Root as support, they still have
3 spinners and a proper new ball attack. Goin into a test with 2 rookie
spinners with so little FC experience is sheer foolhardiness. Innings
defeat looming.

 

[Ashes81]

Simple question for the England management:

Did Lancashire employ Nathan Lyon as their overseas in 2024 because
a) they expected Tom Hartley to be playing for England in all formats in 2024; or because
b) they did not think Tom's red ball form was good to enough for their first team to win matches in the county championship?

I watch a fair bit of Lancashire, they're my county.

At no point have I ever thought that Tom Hartley should be in the running for a test spot.

For me, he's a white ball cricketer.
He usually keeps it pretty tight. He doesn't get much spin but due to his height can produce a bit of extra bounce. He's also a decent bat lower down the order.

I felt for him today - He was pretty brutally exposed and shouldn't have been put in that position.

 

[Socerer 01]

Sorry for my rotten Language but Hartley ready to Drill our *** in india for 5 test match tour if eng pick him for test

hmm wonder what is he thinking now

 

[Third_Man]

I watch a fair bit of Lancashire, they're my county.

At no point have I ever thought that Tom Hartley should be in the running for a test spot.

For me, he's a white ball cricketer.
He usually keeps it pretty tight. He doesn't get much spin but due to his height can produce a bit of extra bounce. He's also a decent bat lower down the order.

I felt for him today - He was pretty brutally exposed and shouldn't have been put in that position.

apart from not watching him today, I have only seen the scorecard, I could have almost written that post myself - although I watch far more of Cumbria than Lancashire these days.

 

[Third_Man]

4 of the last 10 England Test debutants were playing for Lancashire when they made their Test debut as the ECB play #DesparatelySeekingSpinners

are you watching Jack Morley?

 

[Starfighter]

Tom Hartley: My carrom ball is almost there – Indian pitches should suit me

Ahead of England’s Test series against India, Tom Hartley has revealed that he has been working on a ‘carrom ball’ variation.Issue 74 of Wisden Cricket Monthly is out now. Get a copy here.

wisden.com

I’ve only been to India once but the pitches just allow you to fire it in, you don’t even have to think about flight or guile or anything like that. You just let the pitch do the work. In county cricket the pitches are a lot flatter, so spinners have to use their wits a bit more, whereas in India you’re the one who’s meant to be in control. If you’re firing it in and hitting the seam, you’ll be ragging it past the edge.

Evidently, it isn't quite that easy.

 

[KungFu_Kallis]

Tom Hartley: My carrom ball is almost there – Indian pitches should suit me

Ahead of England’s Test series against India, Tom Hartley has revealed that he has been working on a ‘carrom ball’ variation.Issue 74 of Wisden Cricket Monthly is out now. Get a copy here.

wisden.com

Evidently, it isn't quite that easy.

At least he got the Baztalk sorted

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

The carrom variation is when it flicks off the toes for 6.