The “Fab” 3

[Athlai]

KW minnow bashing again today

Turning pitch. Pretty decent spin attack.

Definitely wont count tho

 

[honestbharani]

Nah.. post 2010 BD test matches esp. in BD should count as a decent challenge IMO. I would argue when Rafique was still around, BD at home was still a decent challenge compared to some of the other attacks running around world cricket then.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Turning pitch. Pretty decent spin attack.

Definitely wont count tho

See..... The truth is all three have struggled overseas against some strong opponent. Root against Australia (35 avg, no century, 14 games) and Pakistan (25 avg, 3 games); and Virat against England (33 avg, 17 games; actually had one great tour, but the others were awful) and New Zealand (36 avg, 4 games). But they atleast have good averages in some strong countries as well; like Virat in Australia (54) and South Africa (51); and Root in India (50), New Zealand (52) and South Africa (50). Kane's average in any top tier country except Australia (42) is bad. He averages 30 in England, 33 in India and 26 in South Africa. I am not saying he's the worst here for that reason; just his away record is really bad, except against Pakistan and Australia.

 

[Flem274*]

I think when you look at Henry Nicholls' test average still hovering around 40 (and peaked at 45), being part of a good line up means something.

I'm going to say positive things to balance the constant downer that this sub is.

Kohli was the clear standout in many tough series where India otherwise got killed, and is an excellent hunter of a total.

Root has had the most random career ever, starting as a pretty orthodox future ATG and seems to be on a late career run of reverse smashing dudes for six while sometimes also batting like a pretty orthodox ATG.

KW came in as a child who wasn't really test standard and led the charge up the rankings with important hundreds in almost every series NZ won. Was the clear best player in the most important match in our test history.

 

[Himannv]

I'm sure with more game time they'll all move on from these humble beginnings and go on to have respectable careers in the sport. But we must always remember that cricket isn't for everyone.

 

[Howsie]

I swear I'm not doing this to hate, but the vast majority of Kane's big away runs have come on roads (like Australia 2015 and the recent Pakistan tour). Runs on flat tracks absolutely count ftr. But I don't think it's unfair to say Root and maybe even kohli (who's not as good as him) have had many more impressive innings overseas on tough decks.

His best performances have been the WTC final and that tour of uae that NZ won. He's not consistently batted like an ATG outside of that.

WI vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, 3rd Test at Bridgetown, June 26 - 30, 2014

Get cricket scorecard of 3rd Test, WI vs NZ, New Zealand tour of West Indies 2014 at Kensington Oval, Bridgetown, Barbados dated June 26 - 30, 2014.

www.espncricinfo.com

As someone who has probably watched every ball Williamson has faced in his test career this is IMO his greatest performance. The team had started to show signs by this point (home drawn series against England) in 2013, home series win against India early 2014. But winning away from home kicked this era off

161 not out on a tough Bridgetown pitch, 3rd innings. Set the Windies 300 on the last day. Nobody else come close to scoring 100 on this pitch across all 5 days.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I remember that too it was impressive for sure. West indies has always produced enough tough pitches in the last 20 odd years for it to not always be easy going for batsmen.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Its nearly a third of his matches played!

Playing Test Cricket before the age of 23 isn't guaranteed to be a struggle as a batsman .

For example Graeme Smith at 23 had a record of 2574 runs @52.53 in 30 Tests

Javed Miandad at 23 had a record of
2663 runs @57.89 in 34 Tests

They didn't get brownie points for starting great and neither should Williamson for starting slowly. Every batter matures differently.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Kohli and Root are excellent players but Williamson is just a level above lol. He could be averaging 57+ after the SA series

 

[Flem274*]

Kohli and Root are excellent players but Williamson is just a level above lol. He could be averaging 57+ after the SA series

This isn't true. As I said in the bangers thread they are 3 of the most valuable players in the world in a very bowler dominant era.

Insane cricketers. Look at batting stats since 2018 lol they're twice as valuable as the average bat. Then there's Smith on his own level..

 

[PlayerComparisons]

This isn't true. As I said in the bangers thread they are 3 of the most valuable players in the world in a very bowler dominant era.

Insane cricketers. Look at batting stats since 2018 lol they're twice as valuable as the average bat. Then there's Smith on his own level..

Fair enough although he is clearly #2 for me with his recent form over the last 3 years. It is a very hard era. I think they’d all have better away records if they played in the 2000s

 

[capt_Luffy]

Fair enough although he is clearly #2 for me with his recent form over the last 3 years. It is a very hard era. I think they’d all have better away records if they played in the 2000s

In all honesty, by the time they retire, it's very much possible of them to widely improve their away records. Root just need some more runs in Australia and Pakistan, Virat in England and New Zealand, and well, Kane really need some great serieses in India, England and South Africa.....

 

[honestbharani]

I said it before, all of the fab 4 are ATGs.

Also, its always better to wait for careers to complete before judging, at least within tiers.

I mean, I feel it might end up that all 4 fall in the same tier too by the time their careers are done.

 

[Spark]

Yeah the entire premise of this thread is crazy to me. Given that that they've all put together long Test careers in a particularly bowler-friendly era with averages essentially equal to 50 is clearly ATG standard.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Pretty weird how if one of them ends up averaging 48/49 after a long career, they’ll be viewed as ATVG by most people

 

[Flem274*]

Pretty weird how if one of them ends up averaging 48/49 after a long career, they’ll be viewed as ATVG by most people

Probably now, while viewers are still getting used to the current state of the game, but once the dust settles the handful of dudes with 45+ averages through this era are gonna be highly appreciated imo.

 

[Daemon]

Yeah the entire premise of this thread is crazy to me. Given that that they've all put together long Test careers in a particularly bowler-friendly era with averages essentially equal to 50 is clearly ATG standard.

The premise is to just rank them though isn't it? Don't think it's calling into question their ATG status.

 

[Spark]

The premise is to just rank them though isn't it? Don't think it's calling into question their ATG status.

The OP definitely does.

 

[Daemon]

The OP definitely does.

Nah he was kidding, I think he said that earlier in the thread

 

[Daemon]

Kohli's 2020-2022 has really hurt him big time. The only half decent series he had was in SA. His BG 186 on the mother of flat decks saves his numbers from being even more catastrophic.