Forget peak, overall Waqar is far ahead of Kapil as a bowler. The difference between their records is too big. It's not like Pakistan was a pace paradise that Waqar bowled on. He was simply another level of threats with his reverse swing.
It pretty much was..... he shared most of career with the likes of Akram, had Khan in his early days and Akhtar in later; and Pakistan is much more suited for pacers than spinners; you pointed out yourself. See, I totally agree that if I had to make one bowl in prime, I be damned for not choosing Waqar; but Kapil Dev deserves more respect for those tedious spells in barren wickets..... If we only compare the peak; then Bumrah can pretty much be compared to Waqar or Imran.
Pakistan was concrete pitches that did help reverse only if you had the pace.
I kinda agree on that; I said they're almost equal due to Kapil's workload.... On bowling that many overs in Indian pitches aren't exactly good for your average. My point still is that; the difference between the likes of Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib and Saqlain with Dev, Kumble, Ashwin, Bumrah and Shami is nothing to sneeze at; especially in seaming conditions, but also not as massive as the difference in batting quality; where 1 team has 5 ATGs, 1 great wicky batter and two capable all rounders; while the other team has 1 ATG, 4 other great, one great allrounder and a keeper who could bat some with some help down the line. As I said, in seaming conditions Pakistan will win 60, if not 70 percent games; but they get destroyed, like completely devastated if the ball turns.
Pakistan bats were all elite players of spin, are you aware?
And not really great against pace.... as I said; India demolishes Pakistan in any kind of turning track and if it swings; Pakistan have a major advantage. Also, yeah you're kinda right about Dev. While he has fantastic averages in Australia and West Indies, considerably better teams back then; he wasn't so successful in England, Pakistan and New Zealand.
Nah the pacers are still elite on turning tracks unlike non SC quicks and the Younis, Miandad and Inzi are closer to the Indians on turning pitches rather than seaming decks. Saqlain would be elite too. India has the advantage but no way they wreck Pakistan. On roads Pakistan's batting would wreck India's bowling but the Pakistani pace trios ability to reverse would still make them dangerous. Bouncy decks is where India's batsmen look much better but then against Wasim and Imran would be elite and Saqlain would be good enough for a spinner though Waqar gets nerfed.
I mean, I definitely think Pakistani batsmen are closer in turning pitches; but still Gavaskar, Dravid, Sachin and Viswanath (in place of Kohli) are still overwhelming better. Reverse swing is a problem, but Shami can bowl that too..... Mushtaq and Qadir are Great bowlers; but not like Kumble, Ashwin and the quartet. I can see India competing in bouncy and seamy tracks almost evenly; but I can't see how Pakistan can beat India in turning conditions (especially if the pitch is like Nagpur).
Only Gavaskar, Sehwag and maybe Sachin are better players of spin but pretty much the entire lineup of Pakistan were awesome against spin. So India in India is not an instant win. It's not like it doesn't reverse there either.
Nah Ind with Ashwin/Kumble would win atleast 9/10 times in Ind. Ashwin especially has a SR of 50 in Ind, which even Murali doesn’t have in SL. The difference maker, on dust bowls,will be Sehwag, due to his mastery of spin and attacking batting. And the Ind batting lineup is clearly better vs spin(not taking anything away from Pak’s batting, but Gavaskar, Sehwag, Sachin are probably in the top 7-8 players of spin ever, and one mustn’t forget peak Kohli dominated Shakib and Hearth on dust bowls in Ind. Heck even Kapil is a great player of spin). Also Imran, Waqar, Wasim don’t have particularly great records in Ind. And pacers like Shami and Bumrah have great records at home as well. I’d back Ind bowling to come up good enough at home, so that gulf between the bowling of both sides isn’t as high as it would be in day Aus or Eng.
You mean Kohli's team? They weren't great at playing spin, they never faced a Murali or Warne level spinner who could have wrecked them on these pitches. I'd back 2000s Australia with Warne/MacGill to beat them comfortably.
We already agree India win in India because the pitches are catering to Indian spinners.
Nope. An All time Ind XI, with Jadeja instead of Kapil at home. You get some of the best players of spin and that lethal Ashwin/Jadeja combo. And Kohli’s team at their peak with Kohli/Pant/Pujara are pretty good players of spin.
I’d back Ind to get a draw on a flat track.
By that logic you could say SENA pitches will cater to Pak pacers.
Yes definitely.
Some draws and some to Pakistan thanks to reverse swing.
Agreed the Indian ATG XI in India would be very hard to beat except on less spin friendly surfaces. But replacing Kapil at home makes no sense.
Is that meant to be Shami home, Zaheer away? Otherwise I have some serious questions.